Is rosewood undervalued as a flute wood?

[jemtheflute]

'Rosewood', without a scientific name is meaningless. . .

My 1st response point, pretty much.

[kkrell]

For clarity's sake I would prefer not to use the catchall name 'rosewood'... It's a very large family with colors and characteristics all over the map. 'Rosewood', without a scientific name is meaningless. . .
Bob

Here's a few, then:

http://www.wood-database.com/?s=rosewood

We can proceed now, if there's anywhere to go.

[an seanduine]

Kevin, I think I can explain why I think it is problematic to proceed, but you will have to indulge me since my reasons are somewhat verbose.
You are well aware that it is difficult to identify wood without a microscopic examination. Ordinarily we rely on a trusted chain of custody from harvest and correct botanical identification to manufacture. In the absence of that or the examination of the piece in question microscopically. the identification of wood is mostly putative.
Thirty-five years ago I took my turn at making flutes. Primarily cylindrical bore 'folk' flutes in the keys of F and G. I sold them at festivals to 'free spirits' (hippies). Had I made the intuitive leap Doug Tipple made with regards to the 'wedge', I might well still be doing something in that area. (What makes this more curious in retrospect is the fact that I had met Raoul Fajardo and discussed his invention!).
I still have on hand several flutes in cocobolo from that time. They are so dark now that they are indistinguishable from several antique flutes I have which are putatively made of cocus. I made flutes from Dalbergia Latifolia, Macassar Ebony, Dalbergia Nigra (pre-CITES), Honduran Rosewood (Dalbergia Stevonsii) and Padouk. I 'knew' what those woods were by the assertion of my supplier. Even here I think the operative word is 'putative'.
I can speak about the finishing and machineability of these woods, but I cannot speak to their long-term suitability in terms of stability
since I lost touch with many of their owners. In short I'm not sure if there is anywhere to go from here.

Bob

[kkrell]

In short I'm not sure if there is anywhere to go from here.
Bob

Somehow, Jim will find a way.

[Loren]

In short I'm not sure if there is anywhere to go from here.
Bob

Somehow, Jim will find a way.

[Mr.Gumby]

[/url]Rosewood logging and smuggling

[jim stone]

Thanks to all. I think my original question was answered by information about rosewood's being endangered, its unavailability and expense and also the allergenic risks of working with the stuff. One wrinkle seems to be that rosewood flutes are in fact being produced in large numbers by an American flutesmyth, and these flutes cost significantly less than their blackwood flutes. Some of the pictures I'm linking to are of flutes in higher keys, but lots of regular D flutes are also being produced in rosewood (at least that's what the maker calls the wood) at a much cheaper price than blackwood. It would be interesting to figure out what's going on.

http://www.sweetheartflute.com/folkfifes.html

http://www.sweetheartflute.com/irishflutes.html

[chas]

I dunno about the fife, but the F, G, and A flutes/folk fifes on the Sweetheart site appear to be Honduran rosewood, D.stevensonii. It's a fine tone wood, density about 0.9. It's not nearly as resinous as African blackwood, and coarser grained, a little more susceptible to tearing while you're working it. I have a strong preference for ABW or kingwood in terms of workability.

[brad maloney]

Let's not forget that African Blackwood is a rosewood too, Dalbergia melanoxylon.

[jim stone]

No, if you check the thread you'll see we haven't forgotten. And the distinctions you and others are proffering are worth counting, IMO, and interesting in their own right. Still, talk of 'rosewood' simpliciter isn't meaningless unless, of course, the Sweetheart flute site is meaningless. I did ask Ralph once about the acoustic difference between their rosewood flutes and their blackwood flutes. He said they sound different 'under the ear' of the player, but the audience can't hear the difference. As Sweetheart is making lots of these flutes, and pricing them well below their blackwood flutes, one supposes they may have found a way around some of the rosewood-related impediments mentioned in this thread. Thanks again for the conversation, Jim

[crookedtune]

No problem, Jim.

[libraryman]

Maurice Reviol also seems to like Honduran rosewood. In fact, I just sold one on Ebay. I thought it had a nice warm tone, very pleasant. I would not think of this wood as being inferior to blackwood at all although I agree it is not quite as biting. I only sold it because I promised myself that when I bought my R & R that I would try to sell a couple of flutes and I thought that one had a chance of being picked up in this very down market. It was and I think the buyer got a very nice flute. I don't know about Indian rosewood, but Honduran is an excellent tone wood. So limiting my answer to the O.P. to Honduran, I think he may have a point.

[Favourite Flute]

I love my Casey Burns "Honker" made of Honduran rosewood.

[jim stone]

Here's another maker (http://www.martindoyleflutes.com/flutes.html).

'Martin Doyle's keyless flutes are made from the best hardwoods: African blackwood, cocus, boxwood and rosewood.'

[chas]

FWIW, I just saw this on a hardwoods web site:

Please note: On June 12th, 2013 Cocobolo (Dalbergia retusa) was listed on CITES Appendix II which placed strict regulations on the international trade of the species.

I had no idea it was being harvested so quickly.