pvc vs delrin vs ebonite

[fluti31415]

Hi, everyone --

I have been inactive for a long time, but lurking. After searching, I have not been able to find an answer to this question:

Years ago, I had an M&E polymer flute. I don't know if it was delrin or PVC, or something else, but it was so heavy that I couldn't play it for more than 10 minutes before my shoulder and wrist ached.

Now I see that he makes an ebonite flute, but I'm not quite sure what ebonite is. Does anyone have experience with playing one of these flutes who can tell me what the weight is like? How does it compare to blackwood -- to rosewood -- to any other material?

How do they sound -- are they very bright?

Thank you for any and all advice!

Best wishes,
Shannon

[Jayhawk]

Shannon,

I've owned flutes made of all three materials (Delrin Seery, ebonite and PVC M&Es). The delrin flute was the lightest, but it was also the thinnest walled, had a lighter slide material, and it was the only flute of the three that was keyless.

I suspect if a PVC or ebonite flute was thin walled it would be about the same weight as the delrin, but none of the fake materials is nearly as light as a wooden flute.

If weight is seriously an issue and you want a non-wooden Irish style flute, a Copley in delrin without tuning slide or a delrin Forbes or the slideless Gary Somers pratten will be the lightest flutes you can find.

Eric

[greenspiderweb]

Shannon,

My M&E Ebonite flute weighs in at 15.7 ounces-not a lightweight, for sure. Any flute with a fully lined head (all M&E's), will be heavier than flutes with unlined or partially lined heads. I do find the M&E Ebonite to be very well balanced, though, so that may be a consideration to you as well, depending on the flute. I don't find it heavy, but I don't play for long periods of time either.

Also, any flutes with traditional tuning slides will also weigh more, simply because there is more metal, so Eric's advice about flutes without tuning slides is apt, as well as seeking out thinner walled Delrin flutes such as the Forbes-it's very light. It is thinner walled, and does not use a traditional tuning slide, but it works as well as most of them. Don't know how light the Somers Delrins are, but they have more tradtional tuning slides, I believe.

But if you really want light, then I'd suggest a Boxwood Folk Flute by Casey Burns-it's a treat to hold and play for the body and hands. Nice tone for the ears too, and about the same price range (or less!), and you get real wood. As long as you are reasonably aware of how to care for it, it's a great choice, and should serve you well.

There are other nice, fairly light wooden flutes too, of course, depending on how much you are able to spend. I think there was a weigh-in thread around here somewhere too, that might give you an idea of some others that might suit.

[kkrell]

I recall a Seery Delrin keyless was about 13 ounces, about the same as a Hammy Hamilton 6-keyed African Blackwood flute.

[Doc Jones]

Wood will always be markedly lighter. I'd agree with the advice of a slideless Copley or Somers if you want less weight in a poly flute.

Doc

[megapop]

I'd agree with the advice of a slideless Copley or Somers if you want less weight in a poly flute.

Or maybe da Shannon then...?

PS: And how about some press-ups?

[Akiba]

Here's a video with those materials played on the same model flute by the same player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7HgKm1HzKI

Cheers.

[fluti31415]

Thank you all! I am looking for keys, so I think I am going to wait and go with wood. I was fine with an 8 key blackwood flute some years ago, and sold it (why, oh why??) so I will start shopping around.

[Jon C.]

Thank you all! I am looking for keys, so I think I am going to wait and go with wood. I was fine with an 8 key blackwood flute some years ago, and sold it (why, oh why??) so I will start shopping around.

You could always get a keyed delrin flute from Dave Copley, I know he really enjoys turning delrin keyed flutes!

[Peter Duggan]

none of the fake materials

Fake?

[Jon C.]

none of the fake materials

Fake?

I wonder what fake Delrin is like?

[Steve Bliven]

I wonder what fake Delrin is like?

Naugahyde??

Best wishes.

Steve

[Jayhawk]

none of the fake materials

Fake?

It was meant kind of tongue in cheek, but the internet doesn't always capture that well.

I am one if C&Fs most avid promoters of fake flutes...

[Maihcol]

... Don't know how light the Somers Delrins are, but they have more tradtional tuning slides, I believe...

I also make a 3-piece Pratten model flute as well as the 5-piece model with metal slide. The 3-piece model has the same construction as the 3-piece delrin models of other makers, with a long thin-walled tenon at the top of the upper joint where it enters the head, so that joint can also act as a tuning slide. This design is sometimes referred to as 'slideless', as Doc does above but that specifically refers to the absence of a metal slide and as we know, a long thin-walled top tenon can also approximate to a tuning slide.

The embouchure cut is the same on both models and the 3-piece design does make for a lighter, lower cost construction. For a weight comparison, my 5-piece Pratten model weighs around 330g, while the 3-piece is around 285g but of course as far as the player is usually concerned, a good balance between head and body is more important than overall weight.

Garry