Questions on Bergin tutorial

[Brus]

I have bitten the proverbial bullet and sent for Vol 1-2 of the Mary Bergin tutorial, despite the cost ...

A couple things I don't see in the table of contents. Maybe these are planned for Vol 3, if anyone knows what is supposed to be in that:

1) Playing of airs.

2) Tweaking of whistles.

3) Repertoire.

Anyone know if these are in Vol 3 (or 1-2 but not clearly in the TOC)?

[Mikethebook]

Good choice. I don't think you'll regret it. I'm loving working through Book 2 though am glad I did Book 1 first.

According to Book 2, Book 3 includes (when it is finished):

Second Frame Rolls (for Reels)

Short Rolls

Variants of both Long and Short Rolls, including Crans

More Advanced SNCs (Single Note Cuts i.e. cuts other than when you cut between two identical notes)

Advanced breathing and blowing techniques?????

Slow Airs

and more . . . whatever that is. Hope this helps. Not sure what you mean by Repertoire. And why should tweaking of whistles be in there?

[Brus]

Slow Airs

and more . . . whatever that is. Hope this helps. Not sure what you mean by Repertoire. And why should tweaking of whistles be in there?

OK, so airs are on the way.

Repertoire: what tunes a Real Whistler must know.

Tweaking: It just seems like something an advanced whistler ought to be able to do.

[Mikethebook]

I don't think you'll see anything on repertoire and tweaking. Mary has gone out of her way, I think, to make her selection of tunes different from those that tend to be chosen for most tutor books and I appreciate that. And I don't think tweaking would fit into the tone of the book which is out to make us the best possible players she can, and nothing more. But that's a lot. She spends time with each tune type instructing on how to play them, rhythm-wise and where tonguing might work best, very thorough teaching . . . but I don't think she's interested in anything beyond a VERY comprehensive teaching of the whistle.

It's best to work through the chapters in strict order. But I must confess I will want to jump ahead to the airs section when Book 3 comes out!!

I should also add that I think I will be a long time in Book 2. This is dense stuff and worth every penny given how long it will take to work through.

[Brus]

I don't think you'll see anything on repertoire and tweaking. Mary has gone out of her way, I think, to make her selection of tunes different from those that tend to be chosen for most tutor books and I appreciate that. And I don't think tweaking would fit into the tone of the book which is out to make us the best possible players she can, and nothing more. But that's a lot. She spends time with each tune type instructing on how to play them, rhythm-wise and where tonguing might work best, very thorough teaching . . . but I don't think she's interested in anything beyond a VERY comprehensive teaching of the whistle.

OK, fair enough.

It's best to work through the chapters in strict order. But I must confess I will want to jump ahead to the airs section when Book 3 comes out!!

I should also add that I think I will be a long time in Book 2.

Me too.

This is dense stuff and worth every penny given how long it will take to work through.

Glad to hear it's "dense". The low page-count worried me (as others have mentioned in earlier threads).

[Mikethebook]

Just to clarify, when I say dense, it's not that there's necessarily a huge amount of information on each page - there may be just one tune - but the depth to which she teaches that tune, in terms of the rhythm, where to breath, where to tongue means that every page is rich with information and teaching. Initially I was a little concerned about the cost but I'm learning so fast the way she teaches and yet Book 2 is so full of challenges that it will push me harder than any other tutor I've tried. It's worth what she charges and more. Plus when she's published Book 3, then she'll start putting up further tutorials etc on her web-site free for those who have bought her books. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[NicoMoreno]

By the way, I question your assumption about tweaking. It seems to be some sort of consensus on this board that tweaking is necessary, however I very much doubt the consensus exists in real life. None of my whistles need tweaking, and I only own two "tweaked" ones, which both are better described as newly made whistles, using an existing platform. But neither are ones I play with any regularity.

Most advanced whistlers I know play cheap untweaked whistles (generations, feadogs, mostly), Sindts, and the occasional Burke, with a few smatterings of other types thrown in.

Please note, I don't consider breaking the glue seal on plastic headed whistles to be tweaking.

[Brus]

Most advanced whistlers I know play cheap untweaked whistles (generations, feadogs, mostly), Sindts, and the occasional Burke, with a few smatterings of other types thrown in.

On her two solo CDs I think Mary used Generations in various keys. (This was pre-Sindt) Does anyone know if they were tweaked?

Please note, I don't consider breaking the glue seal on plastic headed whistles to be tweaking.

Me neither. I've loosened the glue to tune several whistles but that's all I've done.

[Peter Duggan]

By the way, I question your assumption about tweaking. It seems to be some sort of consensus on this board that tweaking is necessary, however I very much doubt the consensus exists in real life. None of my whistles need tweaking, and I only own two "tweaked" ones, which both are better described as newly made whistles, using an existing platform. But neither are ones I play with any regularity.

+1 (reading my mind all the way down to the two irregularly-played tweaked whistles!)

[free-feet]

On her two solo CDs I think Mary used Generations in various keys. (This was pre-Sindt) Does anyone know if they were tweaked?

Generation rebuilt the moulding tools a long time ago, 80's i believe. I think you'll find Mary, like a lot of the old whistle players, used the earlier gens, not the new ones.

The new ones are not the same as the old ones.

Another thing to bear in mind with injection moulding tools is that the tool will probably have several moulds within it and produce several heads at once, each very slightly different. Then the tools wear over time with use, adding even more variables to the equation.

Not all gens are born equal.

[Mr.Gumby]

Generation rebuilt the moulding tools a long time ago, 80's i believe. I think you'll find Mary, like a lot of the old whistle players, used the earlier gens, not the new ones.

I very much doubt that to be honest. I have seen her play all sorts of whistles, Generations old and new, James Galway (Which is a 'new' type Gen in essence), Sindt and various odd combinations of head and tube. There is no reason whatsoever to think she'd only play old ones. That's all part of the nonsensical myths around cheap whistles you will find on these forums.

The new ones are not the same as the old ones.

[...]

Not all gens are born equal.

The new ones are certainly not the same as the old ones. The change appears to have been made (no doubt after some market research) to enhance the strength of the lower notes and the overall volume in the new design. As a result the higher notes became a bit louder and lost the sweetness they had in the old ones. You win some, you loose some, that's finding a balance in whistle voicing for you.

Not all are equal, that's true for most, probably all whistles to some degree or other. Some of the old Gens were very nice. Some were not. Same for the new ones. The old ones varied as much as the new ones.

[NicoMoreno]

I picked out a Generation D (nickel with blue top) from a display of 12-20 D whistles. All of them were perfectly acceptable, with about 3-5 that I couldn't tell any difference between, and the rest the differences were miniscule. I've never encountered a completely unplayable Gen.

My favourite whistle is still a Feadog D, but I have a couple friends who didn't like it at all, and my wife has taken over one of the tweaked ones (possibly both, actually, as I think they are both living in her fiddle case), but I think only because I didn't let her take the Generation. I should really buy another one, because I've only got one... Then again, I've got plenty to choose from.

By the way, around here the only people who show up with a Burke made in the last 5 or so years are beginners.... The best players all play generations or whistles like them, at least in terms of playability (there is one O'Riordan).

[megapop]

I've never encountered a completely unplayable Gen.

Well I did. It turned out to be an entire faulty batch though, and the folks from the shop simply sent it back. I then got a fine one from another batch. So within regular parameters (so to say), I guess Generations should be good enough.

[free-feet]

The new ones are certainly not the same as the old ones. The change appears to have been made (no doubt after some market research) to enhance the strength of the lower notes and the overall volume in the new design.

So it had nothing whatsoever to do with the injection moulding tools wearing out?