Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

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Solarune
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Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by Solarune »

Hi – I've not posted here before, so hope this is OK and doesn't duplicate an existing post (I searched, but couldn't find anything covering exactly what I wanted to ask) – if I've done something wrong, please let me know and I'll do my best to correct it! :)

I recently bought a Generation Nickel D whistle off Amazon, which I'm considering sending back. (I've read they're really variable in quality, which is why I got it off Amazon in the first place). I had been playing my boyfriend's Clarke Meg D whistle, but wanted another one as the Clarke was about half a tone flat of concert pitch and was out of tune with itself in the high octave. The Generation whistle seems perfectly in tune and has a nice sound, but often (it seems to be variable and change its mind quite a lot about whether it wants to be played or not!) the higher notes seem to require a lot of breath, and I find it difficult to hit them and get them to sound good and not raspy/squeaky/overly metallic.

I'm at a loss as to whether this is to do with the whistle or my lack of skill. I've been playing the tin whistle for about 10 years and the D whistle I've used before is a brass Generation belonging to my family, which I don't experience the same difficulty with. I also have a low G Dixon whistle which I actually find easier to play than the nickel Generation. I can get a nice tone out of my new whistle in the high register, but I have to really work at it/it's hit and miss. The high G particularly is difficult to hit out of nowhere, and the high D to a lesser extent – they often seem to come through as weird inbetween notes that have a bit of the low and high octave in them (not sure how else to explain it). I've tried things like readjusting my fingers and pursing my lips more/less, but it seems hard to just pick it up and play it without hitting a wrong note.

One thing I've noticed is that the nickel whistle has a very loud and powerful tone (which is really useful in some situations) and I think this is probably linked to it being hard to play (the Clarke is a lot quieter and also a lot easier to play). I found this page from searching and my whistle usually sounds somewhere inbetween the two versions on the clip. But it definitely doesn't fit the criteria of "a whistle without much resistance [that] plays easily into the third octave".

I'm wondering what everyone else's experiences are with the Generation D Nickel whistles – if you find they usually require really hard blowing in comparison to the brass ones? Basically, if I know that it's just the price you pay for the loud and powerful tone, I'm happy to work at it since I like the sound of the whistle when it plays right (and I'd like to improve my whistle breathing technique anyway) but the fact that it's more difficult to play than most other whistles I've played makes me wonder if it's silly to persevere. XD

Sorry for the long and convoluted post, and thanks in advance for any replies! :)

Sol
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by UncleChuck »

I have a Generations D that plays fairly well. I also have several Clarks, Susatos and others. Faedog is my favorite inexpensive whistle. It seems to have the best tuning and intonation.

The material that an inexpensive instrument is made from does not have much effect on the sound. It's how the head (AKA fipple) is made that creates most of the sound. That's why people like Jerry Freeman tweak the fipple but generally not so much the body.

I think it is wise to play several different instruments while just starting. I believe that it helps your instincts for fingering and breathing. Though, I should say that I am not a very good player. The most important thing is to just make the time to play. :)
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by Mr.Gumby »

I think it would be fair to say a Generation D is not a hard whistle to play. Provided ofcourse you have enough breathcontrol and are used to it. Which I think is probably what is your problem, if I go by the description you give.

Whistles don't change from one moment to the next, they need you to blow out the moisture build up every now and again. You may also check inside the head if there's any bits and pieces that shouldn't be there. Other than that, just learn to handle it and you'll be fine.
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by O'Briant »

Solarune wrote:I can get a nice tone out of my new whistle in the high register, but I have to really work at it/it's hit and miss. The high G particularly is difficult to hit out of nowhere, and the high D to a lesser extent – they often seem to come through as weird inbetween notes that have a bit of the low and high octave in them (not sure how else to explain it). I've tried things like readjusting my fingers and pursing my lips more/less, but it seems hard to just pick it up and play it without hitting a wrong note.

One thing I've noticed is that the nickel whistle has a very loud and powerful tone (which is really useful in some situations) and I think this is probably linked to it being hard to play (the Clarke is a lot quieter and also a lot easier to play). I found this page from searching and my whistle usually sounds somewhere inbetween the two versions on the clip. But it definitely doesn't fit the criteria of "a whistle without much resistance [that] plays easily into the third octave".

Sol
Four thoughts:

1) generations can sound wonderful but, as you noted, the quality of one generation to another can vary wildly. What you describe could be the result of a plastic burr or other anomaly in the head. If you like the generation's chiffy sound (as I do), it's worth paying the little bit of extra money to get a tweaked whistle. I own several of Jerry Freeman's tweaked generations, and they are all consistent and constitently good (especially the Bb -- one of my very favorite whistles).

2) I doubt any generation, tweaked or otherwise, will play in the third register (beyond wild notes). And your neighbor's dog wouldn't want you to try anyway. If anyone has a different experience, I'd be curious to hear it.

3) nickel v brass has had a lot of discussion here, and you can search for and find those threads. Personally, I don't hear anything different in my brass v nickel tweaked generations.

4) Look into Jerry Freeman's Mellow Dog D -- it's Jerry's own combination of a tweaked Walton Mellow and Feadog and one of my favorite whistles. My MD D sounds just a touch sweeter than my tweaked Gen D, but just a touch -- still has that nice raspy sound, and I think the tone is more consistent and easier to get than a Gen. I've heard the Mellow Dog described as a louder whistle -- and it's true the piping has a wider bore-- but to my ear, the MD doesn't sound much louder (if at all) from my Gen, and the upper register sounds more full and warm. It might take a bit more air than a Gen, but not a lot more. Just a suggestion I wish someone had made to me a while back.
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by Mr.Gumby »

All whistles vary, to an extend, be they mass produced, designer made or 'tweaked' (hate that description by the way). It's a matter of degrees though, I wouldn't go as far as saying they vary 'wildly'.

As for Generations, I have yet to meet one that is truly unplayable. Some can be not so nice but then again, the same can easily be said for any of the whistles recommended above.
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by Lars Larry Mór Mott »

UncleChuck wrote: I think it is wise to play several different instruments while just starting. I believe that it helps your instincts for fingering and breathing.
I beg to differ.. I think it is much wiser to stick to one whistle until you can play it fairly well. Jumping between different whistles before aquiring basic skills just adds more things that can distract and go wrong to the already mighty chore of learning to play :)
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by Mr.Gumby »

I beg to differ.
So do I. It makes more sense to develop skills on one whistle that works reasonably well. Buying whistles all the time is only a distraction and having to adjust to different demands will also slow you down. If you must start on more at least buy whistles that are very similar in their playing behaviour like Generation, Feadóg, Oak etc.
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by Mr Ed »

Still being a newbie myself (some things are just starting to come to me after 2+ yrs.), I have to say it definitely sidetracked or slowed down my progress by playing and making a bunch of whistles instead of using just one.
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by hoopy mike »

Welcome!
Solarune wrote:I had been playing my boyfriend's Clarke Meg D whistle, but wanted another one as the Clarke was about half a tone flat of concert pitch and was out of tune with itself in the high octave.
Hmm. I'm puzzled by that. I've heard of whistles being sharp (usually because people are overblowing) but half a tone flat is quite an achievement, unless it's a C whistle and you're comparing it to a D. Would you be able to post some clips of your playing?
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by free-feet »

I put aside my Sindt today and dug out my old cheapies that i keep in a big glass vase.

I found that there's nothing unplayable about a nickel or brass gen D. Needs a little more breath control than the Sindt, and certainly doesn't have the smooth delicious tone that i love the Sindt for, but for a tiny fraction of the price of a Sindt, there's really nothing wrong with them (if you like that scratchy, rougher tone of course :P ).

Reading about the other whistle that you say is playing flat in the upper octave, is this because you're not giving them enough push? Probably over blowing the bottom octave and under blowing the 2nd possibly? If you do that with my cheapies then they won't play well either. Don't be gentle with them!!!!
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by Blower »

hoopy mike wrote:Welcome!
Solarune wrote:I had been playing my boyfriend's Clarke Meg D whistle, but wanted another one as the Clarke was about half a tone flat of concert pitch and was out of tune with itself in the high octave.
Hmm. I'm puzzled by that. I've heard of whistles being sharp (usually because people are overblowing) but half a tone flat is quite an achievement, unless it's a C whistle and you're comparing it to a D. Would you be able to post some clips of your playing?
I think Solarune is probably correct. I have a Clarke original D which is flat. I love the tone (I squashed the windway to make it less breathy but it was flat before that) but it's useless in sessions so I use it for solo practice only.
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by hoopy mike »

Blower wrote:
hoopy mike wrote:Welcome!
Solarune wrote:I had been playing my boyfriend's Clarke Meg D whistle, but wanted another one as the Clarke was about half a tone flat of concert pitch and was out of tune with itself in the high octave.
Hmm. I'm puzzled by that. I've heard of whistles being sharp (usually because people are overblowing) but half a tone flat is quite an achievement, unless it's a C whistle and you're comparing it to a D. Would you be able to post some clips of your playing?
I think Solarune is probably correct. I have a Clarke original D which is flat. I love the tone (I squashed the windway to make it less breathy but it was flat before that) but it's useless in sessions so I use it for solo practice only.
A Clarke Meg is very different from a Clark Original.
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by Katharine »

Blue-tack tweak. That is, remove the head, and stuff the extra space in there full of blue-tack putty. Made the second octave of my Walton ever so much easier.

Scroll down to #11 here (but don't use wax! Scroll to the bottom for info on using the blue-tack. Also, follow Dale's advice on the crayons.)
http://www.chiffandfipple.com/tweak.html
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by bigsciota »

I really only play Generations, so I'm probably just used to them, but I'm able to get up into the 3rd octave without too much problem on the nickel ones I own (and while I loosen the heads to be able to tune them, I don't do anything else). I honestly don't get why a lot of people are so down on Generations, every one I've had has ranged from decently playable to quite lovely.

I'd imagine it's just a matter of getting used to the instrument. Everything has a bit of adjustment.
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Re: Generation D Nickel whistles – are they always hard to play?

Post by O'Briant »

bigsciota wrote:I really only play Generations, so I'm probably just used to them, but I'm able to get up into the 3rd octave without too much problem on the nickel ones I own (and while I loosen the heads to be able to tune them, I don't do anything else).
I'm a big fan of Generations, but I'm dubious of this claim -- I'd love to hear a recording of you (or anyone) getting into the third octave (i.e., something above high high D) "without too much problem" on a Gen D, nickel or otherwise.
Last edited by O'Briant on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
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