Sindt High D

[whistle1000]

I'm not selling one but I've been wanting to write about an experience that I had with another player's Sindt that I borrowed for a few tunes at a session that I happened upon...I was without my instruments that day...good time for the story as there is so much talk about them today...so I borrow my friend's Sindt high D..put it to my lips...took the first toot...instantly took it out, stared at, stared at my friend, stared at the whistle again. I was beyond confused!....This Sindt, played NOTHING like mine....trust me, I am not knocking these whistles but I was astounded by the difference, mine is so easy to play and I've got to say that the other was very difficult to play. It needed to be pushed, ( forced, overblown, or whatever you call it ) more than any other whistle that I've ever played. Including low D's. It needed a lot of air and very focused control. It also responded quite differently than mine. Now, I got mine around '97/'98 and my friend got more than 10 years later. I didn't say anything to him because I didn't want to "insult" his whistle. This experience left me bewildered. I know that there are slight differences in any hand crafted whistle, even "identical" ones, but this difference was just waaaaay out there. Just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience.

[Feadoggie]

Fascinating! I have not experienced that with a Sindt. Those Sindts I have played play similar to my own - made in 2005-ish. I would neither describe them as easy or needing to be pushed - but rather a good balance between the two - no mean feat to accomplish either.

You might ask John Sindt about how he has voiced his instruments over time.

We'll see what others have experienced with Sindts.

You are right that handmade whistles will vary a bit from example to example. In my book the hardest thing to do in making a whistle is getting the voicing to be consistent from one instrument to the next and to keep it similarly consistent over time as you make more.

I do know that some makers will modify their voicing preferences over time particularly as they get feedback from experienced players. Whistles that play "easy" may be appealing to some players, especially beginners, but a lot of experienced players want the stronger more stable bottom and something they can lean in to a bit. So makers may start out favoring, as an example, a sweet and easy top end with little push leaving the bottom end somewhat middle of the road. As they get more feedback they may "learn" to voice things more toward the bottom so the lowest notes can be blown harder and then the top end may require a bit of push. Changes of a thousandth of an inch matter a great deal in voicing a whistle. It's a balancing act and few of us have perfect balance.

Feadoggie

[whistle1000]

Thanks for your input Feadoggie...I should say that I find mine easy to play but you're right, there is the perfect balance in mine being that it does take a bit of a "push" but this other one was off the chart when it comes to that. Very fascinating for sure... next time I see this other player, I'll let him know what I thought, let him play mine and see what we think about it...

[Sirchronique]

I have multiple Sindts in each key, and I have noticed some difference, but not what you are describing. I have 4 of the heads for the D/Eb/E size, and they all are quite close, but there are some slight differences. One of them in particular sounds noticably different in tone, but equally good. I also noticed a very slight difference with one being easier blowing (lower octave flips up easier, is what I mean) than the others. However, I consider all the Sindts to take a pretty easy breath in the low octave, but this one stood out a bit.

So, they are all very close to each other, but there is a definite non-placebo difference between them, but only barely so. If this one was hard blowing, maybe he had it specially made? Or maybe it had some damage or needs the windway cleared?

[ecohawk]

I have owned four Sindt D whistles over the years. The oldest one, made around 2001, had a slightly shorter head and a slightly narrower window. It was similar to how you describe yours except I don't recall the dramatic difference you describe. It definitely was somewhat quieter and required less breath pressure to play than the other three I have played.

I still own two in brass and have one silver tube that I prefer over the original brass tube but only because I like the weight and feel. All of these sound the same to me and I've played one other owned by a friend that seems identical to my other more recent brass Sindts. They require more breath pressure and are somewhat louder than my older one was. i will also say that while I noticed a little difference when playing, very few others could tell the difference just by listening.

Of course YMMV.

ecohawk

[Sirchronique]

I have owned four Sindt D whistles over the years. The oldest one, made around 2001, had a slightly shorter head and a slightly narrower window. It was similar to how you describe yours except I don't recall the dramatic difference you describe. It definitely was somewhat quieter and required less breath pressure to play than the other three I have played.

I still own two in brass and have one silver tube that I prefer over the original brass tube but only because I like the weight and feel. All of these sound the same to me and I've played one other owned by a friend that seems identical to my other more recent brass Sindts. They require more breath pressure and are somewhat louder than my older one was. i will also say that while I noticed a little difference when playing, very few others could tell the difference just by listening.

Of course YMMV.

ecohawk

EDIT: I looked at the 4 of mine, and two of them have a shorter head, but it appears to be only the part that goes over the tube, not the part of the head that would change function or anything. The window on these two is the same size, but the ramp looks like it might be slightly shorter than on my other two. To make it more tunable, perhaps?

Then the third one has a body that is longer than those two.

Then the fourth one has a body that is even longer than that one. The ramps on the third and fourth one are the same. However, the fourth one looks like the head is thicker-walled. I'll try out a D body on all 4 heads and record and take note with more attention to how they play differently. I'll also take a picture and put it up. I usually keep Eb and E bodies on the two with the shorter heads. I hadn't noticed the visual difference until now.

I'm curious what you meant by them having a "longer head" , and if it's the same thing I noted.

[ecohawk]

Here's a picture, not a very good one but it's the only one I have.


My three year old (beloved) brass head/silver body Sindt on top, the older Sindt in the middle and a Harper on the bottom. This picture doesn't show the narrower window but trust me, it is. However it does show the head about 1/4" or 5MM difference in length. The whistles are the same length but the scored tuning line on the brass tube is different on the older model than on a newer one. It is closer to the end of the tube.

ecohawk

[whistle1000]

Thanks for your input so far guys! Wow Ecohawke, there is quite the difference there between those two heads!. I just assumed that they would all be the same but, as we know, makers tend to tweak their designs over the years. There are a few players with Sindt's around here but some live in remote communities and I don't get to see them that often. I will defo be comparing mine, one of John's earliest, to these more recent ones. They look the same when we are playing them. I did notice one guys C Sindt. The head on mine is thinner on the bottom and goes to a thicker diameter closer to the windway. No photo but I hope this makes sense. His C head is more like the head of an A whistle. Very thick throughout. I don't think that this would affect the sound though. Just prolly trying to save weight in the earlier one? How about your guys' C heads? This is turning to really good information to share with other Sindt players. If only out of curiosity alone. Thanks again!

[brewerpaul]

I'm guessing that John changed the voicing and perhaps other factors between those two whistles. He makes his stuff on computer controlled machinery, accurate to within fractions of a thousandth of an inch so any given run of whistles made to the same specs should be pretty near identical.
Whistles like mine and those of a lot of other makers involve a lot of hand work and differences most definitely do work their way into the mix. This can be a joy or a frustration.

[Sirchronique]

Yeah, I'll definitely put up a picture of mine soon. As I mentioned, there were more than just two variances in size. The ones in your picture look like the top one is my biggest headed sindt D, and the lower one looks like my two smaller ones. Then there is also one that's in the middle of them. And yes, the windows look the same as on mine. I think I only maybe took the heads off of the Eb and E and used them on a D body maybe once to compare briefly, and that was some time ago. I'm going to do it again and see if I can note any differences.

I never would have noticed this if I didn't look closely. I'm going to compare the heads on my A, Bb, and B, and also on my C and C# to see if the other two sizes vary like this.

The ones I noted the most variance on were the large and medium head ones, which I both have with D bodies. I probably just noticed the difference between those two because I keep them both on D, and that's what I play the most. The tone and playability is slightly different, as mentioned. I actually like the tone of the largest one the best , but how the medium one plays, out of those two.

This is one reason I think it's always good for makers to put a date on the heads.

Ah, speaking of differences, there is something else I've noticed. Some of my bodies are marked with the key scraped into the body up near the head, and others are not marked with the key at all. Most of them are marked, however. I'm going to check the bodies on different heads, too. I haven't really swapped the bodies around much, because I have a head for each of them, and just leave it on them the whole time, and on all of them it's a body that came with them. I remember reading that some people say a feadog body goes right into their sindt, and others say it needs sanded before it will, so I wonder if all my bodies are compatible with all of my heads.

One of my A bodies (I have two A bodies, and one of them I bought without any head with it at all) is a bit tight of a fit into the head, and the other is not, but it still fits in nicely. I have 3 D bodies, so I'll compare the width of them . It would be nice if one of the D's could fit a standard whistle body, simply as I've never tried any body on them other than the sindt body.

[Lars Larry Mór Mott]

The Feadóg head, left over from donating the tube to my Sindt fits on the Sindt tube. The result? Non detectable difference in sound, and the added wonky Sindt C-nat

[ytliek]

I am not a fan of replacing the original tubes on any of my Sindt whistles with other tubes, brand name Gen, Fea, or hand-crafted. I guess I miss out on a lot staying with the original Sindt head and tube... as designed. YMMV This is a Sindt Eb on top with D (not marked) on bottom (my poor pic quality). The two whistle heads are not aligned for accurate differences in pic. There isn't any. I too would like whistlemakers to mark and date the original whistle head and tube. With all the interest and current commanding prices for the Sindts I prefer the original rather than any modified whistle. Again, YMMV



I searched for a Sindt workshop video, but, couldn't find one. Maybe someone on the forum has a stashed copy? However, I was able to locate a few photos of John Sindt in his workshop. The photographer is Peter Carr and the pictures are Copyright The Journal NewsLohud.com. They were taken March 1, 2007 at John Sindt’s Nyack workshop for a story. Photos here posted are for non-commercial use and educational purposes only, please respect that.


I would love to see a documentary video made of John Sindt and his whistlemaking (like the current one of Patrick Olwell over on the Flute Forum). I'd purchase it.

I would also like to see all of the other whistlemakers photo/video documented for craftsmanship and instrument making historical purposes.

[Feadoggie]

I would also like to see all of the other whistlemakers photo/video documented for craftsmanship and instrument making historical purposes.

Nice thought, ytliek. I wouldn't hold my breathe too long waiting if I were you.

There are a few photos and videos out there of whistle making shops. I've seen various bits about Sindt, O'Riordan, Copeland, Hoover, Parks, Somerville, Goldie and others too. Same for quite a few flute makers. Ty Head has complete videos of every step in the process on his site. I do find it interesting to gain a glimpse into the shop of a whistle or flute maker, see a bit of their tooling, peak at their processes, etc.

There are no secrets in how you go about making a whistle. There's too much evidence left in the finished product. I, for one, am happy to share my methods and thinking with others but there are limits. Would you expect a maker to clean the shop, wear nice duds, brush the hair, etc.? The standout thing to me about those photos of Sindt is how tidy the shop is - and he's wearing a nice shirt. No wonder the wait list is so long! He must clean up after every little bit of work. Where's the swarf? I live to produce sawdust and swarf!

Feadoggie

[Mr.Gumby]

All it takes is someone to do it. I have done a project on the making of a set of pipes in the pre digital days and took some 500 pics of different stages (PDF of the introduction here with a small sample of photos here).

The making of a Sindt whistle takes a few hours (see the JS interview) so you'd get a full series of pics in a day. Again all it takes is for someone to do it.

[ytliek]

Would you expect a maker to clean the shop, wear nice duds, brush the hair, etc.? The standout thing to me about those photos of Sindt is how tidy the shop is - and he's wearing a nice shirt. No wonder the wait list is so long! He must clean up after every little bit of work. Where's the swarf? I live to produce sawdust and swarf!

Well, John Sindt did know the photographer was coming for the story that day. Some craftsmen like to work spitshined, while others like to work cluttered. I'm not a craftsman so I don't care how the instrument maker likes to work as long as the finished piece is a real gem. Quality, aesthetic, cost... in that order for me, please. Oh, speed/timeliness... get on the waitlist and just wait it out.

All it takes is someone to do it.

Nice pics. Yes, that's just what I'm talking about, documenting the process. And audio-clips/video of the thinking behind the process. Hmm...,

One of my favorite websites, and it would be nice if every state, county, region, country would produce something similar. Or maybe I need to relocate elsewhere. I don't live in Indiana.
http://folktraditions.com/#