Why cocus?

[Steve Bliven]

[[Apologies if this has been beaten to death somewhere else—if so, please redirect me....]]

Is cocus considered to be a particularly good flutewood for contemporary instruments? Or has it been surpassed by others? Is it still popular because it was used in some of the historic, antique flutes and "so it must be good?" Was it originally used because other, possibly better woods weren't easily available at the time? Or, more generally, what's so good about cocus?

Thanks and best wishes.

Steve

[ÓGràdirei]

In my humble opinion is decisively under the blackwood.
You can find a comparition in youtube too, you 'll sure feel the deeper sound of the blackwood one.
Greetings!

[Feadoggie]

It is a good wood for flutes, perhaps not the very best though. I think a lot of it had to do with 19th century colonialism and the interrelated commercial interests -same story for grenadilla. That old story continues to this day - although managed a bit better by stronger local governments and various international agreements. Whatever the case, the wood commonly available today is not of the same quality as what was available 150+ years ago. Just my take on it, mind you

Feadoggie

[an seanduine]

Cocus, Brya Ebenus, is extremely hard to source. Consequently it is not much used in contemporary instrument making. It was so popular when it was first introduced that it was logged to commercial extinction. I was once offered eight pieces, suitable as pen blanks, for about 400 USD. The whole lot or nothing.
I can give you endless anecdotes. . .but the only place I know of you can readily obtain Brya Ebenus. Jamaican Raintree, is through a couple of horticultural supply houses in Florida as seedling starts for Bonsai. It's slow growth pretty much means that if you can successfully grow it your heirs should br able to turn it. . .
I was told an English maker bought up all the remaining stock when Louis Lot went out of business, and is sitting on it. A maker of wooden headjoints and modern Boehm wooden flutes of my acquaintance bought a literal sling of exotic woods that had been secreted by a Japanese family that was interned during the Relocations during WWII. When this treasure trove was unearthed in the mid-1980's it was found to have some Cocus, as well as true Pernambuco wood. He's not talking. I have heard several logs came on the market in the past ten years as a result of a storm driven tree-fall at the Guantanamo Naval Base. These were sold, quickly, at auction. I have been told Pat Olwell has or has had several pieces. I think you can get the drift that it is rather like Unicorn Horn. . . .

Bob

[Casey Burns]

Basically it was the wood du jour for flutes and a few other woodwinds in the 19th and early 20th century, until they ran out of it. It grows Cuba and Jamaica and elsewhere in the West Indies. Its range may also extend into northern South America. Today African Blackwood is the wood du jour for wooden flutes. It is native to 26 African countries in a much wider geographic range than Cocus. Tanzania and Mozambique is where much of the commercially available Blackwood is cut.

My experience with making flutes in Cocus is that it is much more prone to cracking than Blackwood. And a small percentage of the population reacts to it. Due to its former commercial extinction it usually commands a high price. But not always. I saw some priced smallish half logs at Gilmer Woods in Portland that didn't seem too expensive. I also may have discovered a huge pile of well seasoned squares at a fellow woodturner's workshop - more details on this as I find out more (it may turn out to be something else)....

Even Rockstro "blogged" about Cocus in the 19th century, mentioning that he preferred the Jamaican to the Cuban and South American, and commented on its propensity to splitting. He doesn't even mention Blackwood.

I prefer Blackwood as I don't want to take my chances with Cocus - either becoming allergic to it or having flutes crack in service. Its also less expensive, and relatively easy for me to acquire - Gilmer being just 3 hours south of me!

Casey

[Jayhawk]

I have an antique cocus flute by E. Baack that has wonderful tone. Plus, it's really pretty.

Eric

[libraryman]

Casey, With all due respect, it seems that for someone who prefers blackwood, you seem quite excited about possibly discovering a stash of cocus and somehow I don't think its because you've decided to start making pens!

[Casey Burns]

There is a long story about that potential cocus, as well as some other wood in my friend's possession. Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to say anything about it. Its just amazing and unusual to stumble upon a large stash of it! Assuming it is cocus....

[Julia Delaney]

Some highly regarded flute makers think there is a difference between a flute made from black wood and one made from cocus.
I would rather play a blackwood flute made by a great maker than a cocus flute made by a maker not as accomplished. But given two flutes made by the same maker - identical except for the wood -- I would choose the cocus flute.
A lot of the difference might only be in the ears of the player but that doesn't mean that the difference is trivial or insignificant.

[libraryman]

A lot of the difference might only be in the ears of the player but that doesn't mean that the difference is trivial or insignificant.

Very true.

[Steve Bliven]

Appreciate all the comments thus far—and any more to come.

This thread started because Dave Copley lists a keyless D in cocus as "available." I'm not in the market for one but wondered whether the additional cost for cocus was solely because the wood is rare or whether it really makes a better instrument.

Thanks and best wishes.

Steve

[dcopley]

Appreciate all the comments thus far—and any more to come.

This thread started because Dave Copley lists a keyless D in cocus as "available." I'm not in the market for one but wondered whether the additional cost for cocus was solely because the wood is rare or whether it really makes a better instrument.

Thanks and best wishes.

Steve

This particular flute was made for our display at the Dublin Irish Festival in Columbus Ohio back in August, and since no one bought it there, I am listing it on our web site. The idea at the time was to have some variety besides blackwood and Delrin, and to accommodate the organizers' desire to have an exhibit rather than just a vendor operation. I wish I had some scientific formula to tell me how to price instruments, but I don't have, so it is a matter of trying to guess at what is reasonable. To try to answer Steve's question, the price differential over blackwood pretty closely matches what I paid for the wood at the time I bought it. I have enough good cocus left for about 3 more keyless flutes and no real prospects of getting any more.

[ImNotIrish]

Well, I am thoroughly enjoying my Pratten cocuswood from 170+ years ago. That must have been a 'bumper' crop!
Arbo

[Terry McGee]

Indeed, the amount of cocuswood leaving for Britain must have been of epic proportions. The topic of cocus comes up from time to time, so I've pulled together a few historic sources I'm aware of at:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Cocus.htm.

Let me know if you have more to contribute.

Terry

[Steve Bliven]

Thanks Terry.

A good beginning to compiling info on cocus. I'm hoping that some of the other flutemakers and restoration folks with experience with cocus will be able to add their thoughts either here or through Terry's web page. Thanks to Dave Copley Casey for their experience.

Best wishes.

Steve