Irishman - Amazed and Proud.

[tradrocks]

It never ceases to amaze me the level of interest there is outside of this small Country of mine, Ireland, in our Traditional Music and particularly in the Music of the humble Tin Whistle. There is such a quality of playing and Whistle making beyond our shores that we here in Ireland can rest assured that Irish Traditional Music and Irish Traditional Whistle playing will continue long in to the future. It's people like you all on this forum and other forums relating to Traditional Irish Whistle Music that keep the music alive and instill the interest in others to take up playing the Whistle. I am very proud of our musical heritage and you all should be very proud of yourselves.

[Michael Anderson]

Well tradrocks, you ought to be proud. In my opinion it is the most beautiful music in the history of the human species. I have heard music of every genre (and I really do mean every), and played a good many of them, and nothing has moved me so deeply, from tears to ecstasy, like Irish traditional music. This music can sustain a person for life, through good and bad fortune. My bandmates provided the music at my wedding, and the reception turned into a big session.

I might be biased given my part-Irish ancestry, but I have known many people with no such ancestry who feel the same way, and who play it and listen to with the same passion. Thanks for your wonderful post, makes me feel like I'm on the right path!

[ytliek]

Great comment tradrocks, I love the whistle... listening and now playing.

Somewhere I read that the fiddle rules. That is... right behind the whistle.

[pancelticpiper]

It is amazing, isn't it? I'm an American but I've been playing Irish music nearly my whole life. I'll run into Irish people living here or visiting here, and they're surprised when I tell them I play uilleann pipes and whistle. I've been known to pull a whistle out of a pocket and play a tune... it always amazes them.

I feel your same amazement and pride when I see outsiders who know about and love the music from my home, West Virginia, much smaller and more remote than Ireland. We are less than two million people, scattered widely across a vast range of tree-covered hills (the state is over 90% forest). Our speech and ways seem odd and backward to outsiders but we are proud of our culture, our music, our song, our dance, our history.

[Joe Gerardi]

One of the very important reasons is the modality of the music. So much of music today is pure Major scale (Ionian mode) because the musicians playing it are raised on pop and rock, and have no ideas that the modes even exist. The Trad world will really use the Dorian mode, and as such, create a whole new "sound" for people to hear. They never even knew that modes existed, and to them it's a whole new world. Aeolian mode (what we call the minor key) is also used a lot, and people aren't really used to hearing even that any more, so it makes the ears perk up.

Secondly, the music is either very "up." or very sad. Heart-rendingly sad. That which touches our heart touches our soul. There's an excellent YouTube vid of John McSherry playing "May Morning Dew" on the low whistle. (Not a D, I can't figure out the key...) It just speaks to the heart. And the interesting thing is "May Morning Dew" isn't a lament; he just made it so.

When it's "up," it lightens the heart, makes the feet tap, and is for nothing other than fun. Dancing, prancing, and fun. Even if you're already happy, that boppy, bouncy feel makes you happier. (Unless it's D minor: we all know that's the saddest key.) It's all that is great about the power of music: Take a piece, slow the tempo, add a gazillion ornaments, and you've made something tearful; speed it up, and people are dancing.

It's why music exists. More so, than the angst-ridden crap we hear as Pop music today. I hear any of that and hell, even I want to take a Prozac.

..Joe

[Mr.Gumby]

"May Morning Dew" isn't a lament; he just made it so.

To be honest I can't think of tunes in the Iris htradition that would class as a 'lament'. It's a bit of a popular misunderstanding, that one. Liam O Flynn played 'Taimse im 'choladh' at the start of Séamus Heney's funeral proceedings, I saw an article in a (n English) newspaper saying he played a 'lament'. He didn't, he played a slow air and an air to a song that is far from lamenting anything, quite the contrary.


The May Morning Dew would class as a popular tearjerker though. But seriously, the song ponders the passing of life and the passing of youth and l youth's joy.

A very dear friend of mine used to sing a version of it that she had customised a bit in places, inserting the names of her deceased brothers Michael and John, or example and her own sadness at the falling down of her old home place. It broke my - heart each time she sang it. She sang it to an air completely different from the usual one. Anyhow, given the words and subject of the song, it's not surprising it carries sadness, that's what I am trying to say..

[mickey66]

Nice thread guys!

[pancelticpiper]

So much of music today is pure Major scale (Ionian mode) because the musicians playing it are raised on pop and rock, and have no ideas that the modes even exist.

Actually a vast amount of music other than Irish music is "modal". I've heard plenty of rock, rap, jazz, pop, etc which is strictly pentatonic, and/or in a minor key, and/or mostly Major but uses the flat 7th (in other words the Mixolydian mode). Just the other day a few of us were thinking of and humming a large number of movie and TV themes which are Mixolydian. The thing of letting the piece establish its Major tonality, then throwing in the flat 7th for effect, is so common as to be cliché.

[tradrocks]

I have a fairly open mind / ear when it comes to music. In fact if you were to look through my record collection ( yes, record, those plastic round things !!, of course I have CDs too !) you would find everything from Van Morrison, Jethro Tull , through to Steely Dan, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains etc. etc. But isn't there just something about Irish Traditional Music?? I was at a session a couple of weeks ago in a pub in the Wicklow Mountains and the lads (and lassies ) started up a Carolan tune, O'Carolan's Welcome, a tune I know and love but I purposely didn't join in straight away - I just listened for a few minutes and quite truthfully my heart raced and my body actually shook. In all honesty, what more could you ask of music????

[Joe Gerardi]

Actually a vast amount of music other than Irish music is "modal". I've heard plenty of rock, rap, jazz, pop, etc which is strictly pentatonic, and/or in a minor key, and/or mostly Major but uses the flat 7th (in other words the Mixolydian mode). Just the other day a few of us were thinking of and humming a large number of movie and TV themes which are Mixolydian. The thing of letting the piece establish its Major tonality, then throwing in the flat 7th for effect, is so common as to be cliché.

Actually, I should have stated that guitarists are quite familiar with Pentatonic scales. You're correct there. But I submit: if you went to the overwhelming majority of those pop composers that are adding the dominant 7, and specifically asked them to write something there for you on the spot in Myxolydian mode, I would seriously doubt they could do it, or more importantly, know what it is you're talking about. Accidentals will change modes on the fly, and I think they do it simply because they like the sound, not because they know the change in modality will fit the music. In Western music, we don't really use the natural minor mode, we use the Melodic minor, adding the major 7th, in order to have the feel of a tonic. Well, the moment you do that, you're changing modes away from the minor, and the upper ascending tetrachord actually become part of a major scale. I say this because almost no one today with play the flatted 7th and flatted 6th on the descending scale - the proper way to play in Melodic minor - to really be playing in the Melodic minor scale.

But in Irish music, the decision to write a piece in - say - E Dorian is a deliberate choice. They want that sound, and it's the way the aural tradition has been handed down, knowing what scale to use for what the desired effect will be.

..Joe

[Peter Duggan]

In Western music, we don't really use the natural minor mode

Losing My Religion

I say this because almost no one today with play the flatted 7th and flatted 6th on the descending scale - the proper way to play in Melodic minor - to really be playing in the Melodic minor scale.

Everyone who practises these scales does!

[ytliek]

I was at a session a couple of weeks ago in a pub in the Wicklow Mountains and the lads (and lassies ) started up a Carolan tune, O'Carolan's Welcome, a tune I know and love but I purposely didn't join in straight away - I just listened for a few minutes and quite truthfully my heart raced and my body actually shook. In all honesty, what more could you ask of music????

Coincidence that you mention the O'Carolan's Welcome. Lovely piece. I'm learning the whistle and practice with a Trad Irish group that knows the tune well and play it very often. I have sat there enjoying listening to that tune many times and can't wait to learn to play it myself.

O'Carolan's Welcome... Lúnasa's version... welcome indeed! But I'll take any version of that tune. Lovely!

[pancelticpiper]

I just played Carolan's Welcome at a wedding last Sunday! A gorgeous piece. I play it in A minor and it's a bit tricky hitting all those F naturals. I do that key because I can hit the high C's nicely on my old Feadog, while high D's would jump out too much (were I to play it in B minor). I was playing in a "classical" combo with cello, violin, and piano and I had to be mindful of my tuning!

We played Carolan and traditional airs for the "cocktail hour".

An old friend of mine, who used to make his living as an orchestral musician but is also a good trad banjo player, would say "I love Carolan. It's not like anything else. It's not like Baroque music, it's not like trad Irish music, it's unique." He would also say "you can't fake Beatles, and you can't fake Carolan."

[pancelticpiper]

if you went to the overwhelming majority of those pop composers that are adding the dominant 7, and specifically asked them to write something there for you on the spot in Myxolydian mode, I would seriously doubt they could do it, or more importantly, know what it is you're talking about.

Well I think John Williams and the other guys I was thinking of know their theory very well, and know exactly what they're doing.

Famous Mixolydian themes from TV/movies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veMYaLTllos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsHhE1gQ0NU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHp9oZPqs8E

The singer/songwriter dude, with no music theory training, sitting in his garage writing original songs by strumming various chords on his guitar, yes you are probably correct.

[Joe Gerardi]

In Western music, we don't really use the natural minor mode

Losing My Religion

Which is a 22 year-old song. And one song out of how many since then? (Though I am sure there are others.) You make my point nicely for me,.

Everyone who practises these scales does!

Very true. How many current pop artists do you think do that?

..Joe