C nat. on Sindt Whistles

[whistle1000]

I don't want to hijack another thread (MB tutor) so I'll start this one. please bare with me as I know that this has been discussed before... I've been playing John's whistles almost since he started making them...I keep reading how the C nat. is sharp and can't be crossed fingered....and people are even switching the to Gen. bodies to compensate...I'm not going to "force" my opinion on anyone else for sure, as I am aware that is only my opinion...I am a big fan of John's whistles...so much so that I immediately sold my high D Copeland (which I had sent back to Michael to be re-voiced btw. Also my low D)...I just wanna "defend" these whistles...I have a Bb/A set, a C and a D/Eb set from John...I've played them on stage, in recording studios and sessions....I have never had a problem with the Cnat., or that crossed fingering on the other keys (lucky me I guess)...I cross finger and 1/2 hole depending on the situation but, I'd say mostly cross finger... I've had intonation problems with several other whistles in studio situations but never the Sindt High D...the only Sindt that gave me any bother was the Bb with 5 fingers down but quickly learned to control that though... but that's the process really, vocals, fiddles, etc...( one session, the singer almost "punched in" every word).... pretty well every whistle needs to be cotrolled....one could almost say every note on the respective whistles...studios are very unforgiving and humbling...pretty well every whistle I have has some sort of "defective" tuning...you just learn to compensate and approach the difficult notes how they need to be played in order to play them in tune...mind you, that's only performance and recording settings...sessions, give me a solid A and away we go...if that Cnat. is really a bother for anybody, just experiment with your options, fingers, blow etc. until you get the desired note (I would imagine that you would be using a tuner....as I recall, I've only met two people with perfect pitch...but really, who needs it to be perfect?....I've never had anyone come up to me and say, "good tunes, too bad about that Cnat. though!"....I just don't want people to be turned off from these absolutely fantastic whistles IMO....If one really needs that Cnat...I could only imagine that it would be in a performance or recording situation...I would also imagine that if one were to find themselves in such situations, that they are competent enough to control each note....please don't over complicate the Cnat... and please, please don't deny yourself the pleasure of playing Sindts'....just look around, you see Sindts' everywhere...I apologize for my long post...(edited to say Gen bodies not heads)

[lament]

From http://www.chiffandfipple.com/sindtinterview.html :

A couple of people have noted that the C-natural fingering on the Sindt is problematic. I've noted that the tuning sounds best on my D whistle with a 234 or 2345 fingering. What do you think?

I prefer the half-hole method. Maureen, Joanie and Mary all taught this and felt that it was more accurate. But if I were to use another method I prefer the lower two fingers of the left hand. [hence G and A covered]. And blow a little softer.

[Mr.Gumby]

I have never had a problem with the Cnat., or that crossed fingering on the other keys (lucky me I guess)...I cross finger and 1/2 hole depending on the situation but, I'd say mostly cross finger...intonation problems while recording? Defo!..

You will really have to make up your mind on this. Do you have problems or not? You can't have it both ways.

[whistle1000]

Sorry about the confusion Mr. G....I was generalizing when I made that statement...ie, vocals, whistles etc...I have never had an issue with the Sindt Cnat... I've learned to control it...shade top hole with all fingers down with airs and with the other stuff, breath control. mostly my Copeland low D, Chieftain Low G...and the odd wonky note on several others.. usually it's me...I play with "lazy" fingers and It's in those situations that I have to be aware of each note...no "lazy" fingers in the studio though...my point was that one will just have to learn to control each note... I'll edit the post because I realize that it's confusing....

[Mr.Gumby]

This subject has been up for discussion so often I am not sure it's worth making a whole song and dance about it all over again.

John Sindt is a fine whistle player and craftsman who has designed a whistle to play in the way he likes it best. There's no point whining he should change his ways. Just as there's no point denying the specific design doesn't suit everybody. My own point of view is that I deal with the whistle as it is but I recognise some people have a real issue with it and that's fine. But there's nothing to stop anyone from adjusting things to suit themselves. Improve the situation by ditching the original tube and replace it with any old one that suits you. Problem solved. Not a bother.

[whistle1000]

This subject has been up for discussion so often I am not sure it's worth making a whole song and dance about it all over again.

My point of view is that you will indeed have to deal with the issue and if you do it's fine. But that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. I never thought it was a problem, I deal with it, but a lot of people do and to them it's a very real problem and that's fair enough. Improve the situation by ditching the original tube and replace it with any old one that suits you. Problem solved. Not a bother.

Mr G....I agree with you whistle1000% ....LOL...I've read lots of posts on this topic ... no need to beat this dead horse!

BTW my woman came back from Miltown with load of cd's one of them was... Kitty Hayes Remembered....awesome job there sir!!...as there are several other guests on that album, I'l' let the rest guess your identity ..all the best!

[maki]

Beating dead horses is what we do on internet forums, otherwise what is the point.

Bad horse, BAD, BAD!!

So here is my contribution;
The first thing I did when I got my Sindt high d was stick a brass Feadog tube on it.
BTW, it fit perfectly, no modification required.

I'm not opposed to half holing just lazy.

[whistle1000]

I'm defo not against trying a gen. body at all...when I read earlier posts on the topic, I thought it was ingenious and fascinating!....I've not tried it yet butI will....I just find the whole Cnat.thing a litlle over complicated here and would not want any one to miss out owning one of these gems just because of it...all the best!

[maki]

If you'lre worried about John Sindt having a lack of customers you can probably relax.

[ytliek]

I'm certainly no one to say do this or that, my being so inexperienced 'n all half holing and cross fingering, however, I'll offer this two cents to the fast food generation. Obtain two Sindt whistles leaving one as originally made and have a Burger King experience with "having it your way" and put any other tube in number two.

And yes, get a Sindt whistle by all means... just don't ask for mine.

[LisaD]

I don't know about the high D, but the "Cnat" fingering on my Sindt A is fine at oxxooo if I pull back a tad on the breath pressure and solid at oxxxoo with more pressure.

[Sirchronique]

I own many sindts, and I think the 0XX 000 c-natty is off on them (some more than others), but not as terribly as some might say.

I use a combination of different methods for C natural, depending on how it occurs in the tune. If I'm just passing over it briefly, I usually use the 0XX 000, and it's not so noticable. If it's played in a situation where the note occurs a lot in the tune, I either use D00 000, or I shade more than just the second and third holes, depending on where that note is needed, and which flows better in that area.

It's never been a big problem for me. Actually, the sindt has made me get quite good at half-holing the c-natural, and now I often half hole that note (and other notes!) occasionally , regardless of what whistle I'm playing on. Half-holing is a good skill to acquire. I'd much rather just learn to half hole, rather than stick new tubes on an already fine creation. In situations where half-holing is undesirable, such as a triplet, I just use either the 0XX 000 and deal with a very brief slightly off tuning, or I'll use a different cross fingering, if I think it really sticks out too much in that situation.

As has been said, it is what it is. You can either put a new tube on it, or play a different whistle, or you can just deal with occasional bad tuning on that note or use a different cross fingering or you can use half-holing. Plenty of options.


And yes, it's worth trying out the 0XX X00 . That works very well on most of them. For people accustomed to 0XX 000, it doesn't take much more effort to learn to use three fingers. However, this works better on many whistles, not just sindts.

[Lars Larry Mór Mott]

I just stuck a Feadóg tube on mine. No big deal, the mojo's in the head anyway, not the tube!
(That said i fail to see what's so "God-like" about it and how it has gotten its cult status?! It's a (very) good whistle, but IMO it has nothing on the Löfgren brass/blackwood model)

[bogman]

Weird. If folk are having to swap bodies why doesn't he just sort it out and make them in tune?

[Steve Bliven]

I really don't understand all the fuss. As Mr. Gumby said above, it's a fine whistle that some like as is and some want to change.

Mr. Sindt has said in interviews that he designs his whistles to be half-holed—that's how he plays—and apparently enough folks agree that his whistles are desirable enough to keep his order numbers high. So why should he redesign his whistles because some possible buyers would like a different set-up? Some love his instruments, some not so much. But it's his design—take it or leave it. He just makes the whistle. Any "god-like" attributions come from the audience, not the maker.

Confused in Dartmouth.

Steve