Pushing the CP chanter into tone

[tommykleen]

In 2002 I was at the Northeast Tionol in Maine and was taking a class with Máire Ní Ghráda. In that class she expressed something to the effect of "the worst-sounding thing in the world is the unsupported chanter" (paraphrase). I did not fully appreciate what she was talking about until some years later I was in a crowded tionol workshop with Ivan Goff. I swear he must have spent over half of the workshop time having me push my chanter into the tonal space that he believed was desirable. Specifically the lower octave As and Bs. Over and over again.

Since that time I have become sensitive to the weak tone that comes off the chanter in that area if not pushed a little harder. And I hear it (or believe I hear it) in a good many student-players as well. I have tried to explain this under-supported tone concept to people...bu not very successfully I feel.

Do you believe there is commonly a tone deficit in CP chanter playing?

[No E]

Yes. I think that there is an over-emphasis expanding repertoire and learning ornamentation, and that more time needs to be spent working on tone and phrasing.

It comes down to taking the time to explore the tonal possibilities of each note on your particular chanter, then optimizing the tone of each note in the context of the tune being played.

No E

[geoff wooff]

The Highland Pipers call it "Blowing Tone"..... but basically finding the right strength of air to give each note its best sounds.

My wife was on a week long course for the French Cornemuse, last summer, and one of the teachers spent an entire afternoon getting the students to achieve the best sound from every chanter note by feeling for the right pressure and attack.

[PhilD]

Do you not think it is a combination of reed and chanter? My limited experiance makes think you can learn the tonal qualitys of your chanter, but that there would be an adjustment period of relearning with a different reed. Would that be right?

[geoff wooff]

Do you not think it is a combination of reed and chanter? My limited experiance makes think you can learn the tonal qualitys of your chanter, but that there would be an adjustment period of relearning with a different reed. Would that be right?

Yes.

[rorybbellows]

Needless to say the best pipemakers/ reedmakers are the ones who can combine a chanter and reed that produces the best tone at even pressure across the first octave and then second. The idea that you would have to adjust the pressure for each individual note while playing a reel at full pelt is crazy.

RORY

[Richard Katz]

I agree with Rory, however I have found that I have to "push" my first octave B a little to bring it up in pitch a hair. It is about 10 cents flat. It just sounds better to me when I push it alittle or play it off my leg.
Any suggestions how to permantly fix this would be appreciated.

Cheers! Richard

[CHasR]

The Highland Pipers call it "Blowing Tone"..... but basically finding the right strength of air to give each note its best sounds.

My wife was on a week long course for the French Cornemuse, last summer, and one of the teachers spent an entire afternoon getting the students to achieve the best sound from every chanter note by feeling for the right pressure and attack.

As a Béchonnet player, I have to chime in and say that Cornemuse requires more attention to each tone than any other pipe ive played. In the uilleann pipe i find there are 'zones' of optimal pressure for timbre, but with the béchonnet, virtually each tone, it seems, makes its own individual demands of the piper. The gradation is there in every chanter, to be sure, the highland pipe demanding only but a subtle change from low to high pitches. Its easy to see how Blanc, Montbel, Blanchard, Guenzi, LeMaitre, Rasle, etc can spend a whole day on the topic :_)

The idea that you would have to adjust the pressure for each individual note while playing a reel at full pelt is crazy.
RORY

It IS, and this is the whole art of the game Rory, to lead the listener on with what your going to do next, that the musical payoff is far greater than any loss in tone, intonation, or even technique.

AUSDAG: i realize its an 'ipso facto' observation; belive it or no i played oboe professionally for 10 years and it's just part & parcel to adjust intonation via embrochure, dropping a few fingers, changing pressure,(or worst case, for each seperate reed!) instantaneously by reflex, to the musical situation at hand. Conductors would skewer you if you dont!!!

[ausdag]

ChasR, looks like you got in just as I deleted my post...I realised the subject of this thread was tone, not intonation so I was barking up the wrong tree

[CHasR]

ChasR, looks like you got in just as I deleted my post...I realised the subject of this thread was tone, not intonation so I was barking up the wrong tree

althogh, I didnt mean to step on your input
My clarinet teacher used to say, "if you play in tune, with a good tone, that is 99% of the music ! " over the decades ive found this to be quite true.

[ausdag]

ChasR, looks like you got in just as I deleted my post...I realised the subject of this thread was tone, not intonation so I was barking up the wrong tree

althogh, I didnt mean to step on your input

ChasR, no worries

[geoff wooff]

I agree with Rory, however I have found that I have to "push" my first octave B a little to bring it up in pitch a hair. It is about 10 cents flat. It just sounds better to me when I push it alittle or play it off my leg.
Any suggestions how to permantly fix this would be appreciated.

Cheers! Richard

For correct harmonic tuning to your drones the B note should be 16 cents flat ! So, do you mean that it is 26 cents flat unless you push it ?

[boyd]

What relationship would folk say there is between Tone and Tuning ?

And how do you play any given note to maintain tuning but increase tone ??
(Venting? Vibrato? or something else?)

Bag pressure can affect pitch I suppose. Do you use this to counterbalance the effects of whatever your fingers have to do to increase the tone?

Boyd

[boyd]

for example........

I remember Sean Potts and Robbie H each talking about "brightening" the A by venting the F# hole (lift the 2nd finger lower hand)
In some chanters this would slightly alter pitch but bag pressure could be adjusted if its a sustained note

[Sam L]

Peter Hunter would spend a good deal of time trying to drum into players the importance of bag pressure on tone. When playing fast it becomes more broad brush, but it's true that there can be a tendency to under blow the first octave, which then sounds thin and lifeless. As Rory says, the pressure used to play both octaves should be broadly similar.

One problem with a practice set is that habits of squeezing like mad for the second octave A and B can become ingrained, as there is no drawback as there would be with drones and regs.

If a chanter plays both octaves at about the same pressure it makes it way easier to set up regs, and drones.

On a Coyne style flat chanter there is so much tone waiting in the lower octave for the right bag pressure.