Its not plastic necessarily.....
- Jayhawk
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
Jim - If you drive on highway 54 to Warrensburg (or is it 50), you can taste the city's lovely sulferous water...not harmful to humans at all but tastes nasty.
Casey - Latex is unvulcanized rubber, ebonite is vulcanized rubber with sulfer added to it...no idea if ebonite would set off a latex allergy since it's vulcanized. Has your wife ever bowled and was it a problem? Those black bowling balls are still ebonite most of the time (some are made from other polymers now, especially the colored ones).
Eric
Casey - Latex is unvulcanized rubber, ebonite is vulcanized rubber with sulfer added to it...no idea if ebonite would set off a latex allergy since it's vulcanized. Has your wife ever bowled and was it a problem? Those black bowling balls are still ebonite most of the time (some are made from other polymers now, especially the colored ones).
Eric
- Jon C.
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
I agree with Dave, it is very easy to work if you know how to work it. All my cutters are carbide, Delrin will never dull them. Gundrills go right through the stuff, providing you are not overheating the tip. You never want to get this stuff to it's melting point! I get the Delrin pre-drilled, so there is less waste. It comes with a hole just under 3/4", this works great for head joints and barrels. I am not make many flute at the moment, so I mainly use Cocuswood or Boxwood, Blackwood is so messy...dcopley wrote:I find that Delrin works more easily and quickly than blackwood for most operations, but you need the right tools and techniques. Pilot hole boring is usually a one step operation and it takes me around 30 seconds to gun drill a 9/16 inch diameter hole through a 9 inch long blank. I use compressed air and also a collection nozzle to suck all of the chips straight into the dust collector. Of course, some dimensions can be bought as tubing which eliminates the need to pilot drill as well as minimizing the waste material.
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
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- Casey Burns
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
So in my email tonight I get this choice item. I suppose if I made plastic flutes, I'd be all set!
I am still trying to figure out what they mean by the word "Gland". They have been breathing too many plastic fumes perhaps....
I am still trying to figure out what they mean by the word "Gland". They have been breathing too many plastic fumes perhaps....
Dear
Gland to hear that you’re on the market for chemical products.
This is Shenzhen United Great Import﹠Export Co.,Ltd in China .
We specialized in producing kinds of different chemical products such as:
Plastic bags
Polypropylene PVC ABSResin PET Flakes HIPS HDPE
High quality and competitive price for you! If you are interested in any of
them, please contact us at any time! Thanks!
Best Regards
Miss Miya
Company: Shenzhen United Great
Import﹠Export Co.,Ltd
Last edited by Casey Burns on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
- monkey587
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
Comic Sans means business.Casey Burns wrote:So in my email tonight I get this choice item. I suppose if I made plastic flutes, I'd be all set!
I am still trying to figure out what they mean by the word "Gland". They have been breathing too many plastic fumes perhaps....
William Bajzek
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
I've only tried a few delrin/polypenco flutes and they seemed to play alright but were exceedingly heavy.
Poly is heavier/denser than blackwood, so it seems to me that to get the same potential for vibration the flute tube would have to be correspondingly thinner.
This is especially true of poly Highland pipes, which feel twice as heavy on the shoulder as an ordinary wood set. I can't imagine why the pipemakers insist on using the same thicknesses of everything on their poly pipes. Tonally the poly pipes and blackwood pipes are quite similar: I had two blackwood and one poly set all by Dunbar and the bass drones sounded indistinguishable. The poly tenor drones were a tad louder, but when I measured them I found that they had slightly bigger bores than the wood ones.
Of course with a thinned flute head you need the chimney. But what about the flute body? Do you need to maintain the same chimney height as wood flutes? Silver flutes have much reduced chimney heights on their toneholes, don't they?
Does anyone make a good-playing thin-walled poly flute?
BTW Casey I used to have a wonderful all-boxwood Gaita Gallega in C. Blackwood rings. But I sold it on Ebay a few years ago.
Poly is heavier/denser than blackwood, so it seems to me that to get the same potential for vibration the flute tube would have to be correspondingly thinner.
This is especially true of poly Highland pipes, which feel twice as heavy on the shoulder as an ordinary wood set. I can't imagine why the pipemakers insist on using the same thicknesses of everything on their poly pipes. Tonally the poly pipes and blackwood pipes are quite similar: I had two blackwood and one poly set all by Dunbar and the bass drones sounded indistinguishable. The poly tenor drones were a tad louder, but when I measured them I found that they had slightly bigger bores than the wood ones.
Of course with a thinned flute head you need the chimney. But what about the flute body? Do you need to maintain the same chimney height as wood flutes? Silver flutes have much reduced chimney heights on their toneholes, don't they?
Does anyone make a good-playing thin-walled poly flute?
BTW Casey I used to have a wonderful all-boxwood Gaita Gallega in C. Blackwood rings. But I sold it on Ebay a few years ago.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
- Jon C.
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
I have never weighed delrin, but I am pretty certain it is not heavier then blackwood or cocuswood. I have a triple beam, if I get a chance I will weigh the different materials... The delrin flutes I have made in the past are quite light, it is how you turn the flute, if it is a chair leg, yes it will be heavier. If the body is thinned, you will have to take that in account when tuning the flute, but ihave made ultra thing bodies, and it didn't change the tone. The embouchure chimney is critical, but it is possible to offset the bore, to increase the chimney and thin the back of the head joint, Terry has been making these for years.pancelticpiper wrote:I've only tried a few delrin/polypenco flutes and they seemed to play alright but were exceedingly heavy.
Poly is heavier/denser than blackwood, so it seems to me that to get the same potential for vibration the flute tube would have to be correspondingly thinner.
This is especially true of poly Highland pipes, which feel twice as heavy on the shoulder as an ordinary wood set. I can't imagine why the pipemakers insist on using the same thicknesses of everything on their poly pipes. Tonally the poly pipes and blackwood pipes are quite similar: I had two blackwood and one poly set all by Dunbar and the bass drones sounded indistinguishable. The poly tenor drones were a tad louder, but when I measured them I found that they had slightly bigger bores than the wood ones.
Of course with a thinned flute head you need the chimney. But what about the flute body? Do you need to maintain the same chimney height as wood flutes? Silver flutes have much reduced chimney heights on their toneholes, don't they?
Does anyone make a good-playing thin-walled poly flute?
BTW Casey I used to have a wonderful all-boxwood Gaita Gallega in C. Blackwood rings. But I sold it on Ebay a few years ago.
Here is the link back in 2005... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24777&hilit=thin
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
I haven't weighed it either, but according to tables, it's around 1.4Kg/M3, where 1.0 is the weight of water. Blackwood and cocus are around 1.2, with boxwood around 0.95. So delrin is heavier but only by about 17%.
Mass is proportional to volume, and volume of a cylinder (first approximation only, not a recommendation!) is Pi x r squared x L. Pi and L are constants, so a reduction in diameter (and therefore radius) of about 8% will restore the weight. That would be equivalent to a reduction in wall thickness from 4mm to 3.7mm.
Terry
Mass is proportional to volume, and volume of a cylinder (first approximation only, not a recommendation!) is Pi x r squared x L. Pi and L are constants, so a reduction in diameter (and therefore radius) of about 8% will restore the weight. That would be equivalent to a reduction in wall thickness from 4mm to 3.7mm.
Terry
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
The volume of wood/delrin in a flute would be approximately pi x r x t x L, where t is the wall thickness. You want the same L and r for acoustic reasons, so you'd have to reduce the wall thickness by 17% to get the same weight.Terry McGee wrote:Mass is proportional to volume, and volume of a cylinder (first approximation only, not a recommendation!) is Pi x r squared x L. Pi and L are constants, so a reduction in diameter (and therefore radius) of about 8% will restore the weight. That would be equivalent to a reduction in wall thickness from 4mm to 3.7mm.
Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
I just put a Delrin D flute (no rings) on the scale and it weighed in at just under 9 ounces. So an all-wood flute would be one or two ounces lighter, depending on the wood. Adding tuning slide, rings, and keys could increase the weight by 7 ounces or thereabouts depending on the design. An average human arm weighs over seven pounds and you have to hold two of them up when you play the flute, so I would not be too concerned about an ounce or two more or less on the flute. I suppose you could tie a helium balloon to the end if it really bothered you.
- LorenzoFlute
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
You just changed my life.I suppose you could tie a helium balloon to the end if it really bothered you.
Or actually, you could tie it to some kind of mini elicopter device that will function as a drone as well!
Antique 6 key French flute for sale: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=102436
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- an seanduine
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
You might not want to take a 'hit' off that balloon full of helium just before you blow a note. It might have . . .um, err, have an 'éffect' on yer tone. Just sayin'. . .LorenzoFlute wrote:You just changed my life.I suppose you could tie a helium balloon to the end if it really bothered you.
Or actually, you could tie it to some kind of mini elicopter device that will function as a drone as well!
Bob
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- Jayhawk
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
...but how else is one to play above the third octave D? I thought everyone else used helium, too.
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculato ... s/tube.php
But you only need this http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculato ... nnulus.php
Unless its a conical flute of course
But you only need this http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculato ... nnulus.php
Unless its a conical flute of course
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Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
And a mild mannered flute maker knows this how, Dexter Copley?dcopley wrote:An average human arm weighs over seven pounds......
Re: Its not plastic necessarily.....
The magic of the internet Loren ! More than you ever wanted to know at http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does ... _arm_weighLoren wrote:And a mild mannered flute maker knows this how, Dexter Copley?dcopley wrote:An average human arm weighs over seven pounds......