Making very little progress on the whistle...

[jadoop]

I have a background in percussion and hand drums (bongos, cajon) and ITM recently started appealing to me. I got a Clarke D whistle along with Grey Larsen's "Essential Guide". I've been practicing for a few hours per day for a couple weeks. I understand and can execute the basics (cuts, slides) but when I try to practice one of the simple songs he has in there I just can't string it all together. Despite hours of practicing the tune I can't remember more than the first couple measures of even the simplest jig.

When I first picked up a drum it felt natural, kind of like a direct connection to my inner rhythm. Did the whistle feel like that to any of you guys when you first started? To me it feels cumbersome and labored; I just get the feeling that this isn't "my instrument" if you know what I'm saying. I want to learn and I feel like I'm putting in the effort but not seeing any return. Thoughts?

[Feadoggie]

Welcome to the neighborhood.

One difference between rhythm and melody instruments is that the music is made up of musical phrases. And unlike beats they are not delineated by measures necessarily. Try listening to the jig (or reel or hornpipe, etc.) and think of it as a collection of musical phrases or individual multi-syllabic words, like spoken speech, which when strung together comprise whole a sentence. Try that. It may take a bit of time to get the feel of the melody but once you have it in your ears and mind it will come out of your hands. You can do this.

Feadoggie

[Mr.Gumby]

Your interest in Irish music is 'recent' and your practice on the whistle has taken 'a few weeks' . Considering you're learning the language of a type of music new to you as well as a new instrument (and I think the transition from rhythmic to melodic is a step to be reckoned with as well), perhaps you're expecting too much too soon?

[MarkP]

Like he says...

it's a big journey to venture into a whole new genre, language and culture of musical learning, and at the same time learn a new instrument. It will get easier. Keep going with the whistle practice but make as much time as you can to listen and learn about the music and the tunes, that will really pay off later. Like driving and navigating, it's hard to learn both at the same time. Work out where you want to get to and ask advice along the way about how to get there (I couldn't have set out on that road without Mr Gumby's generous help, so thanks for that). Playing the whistle will come natural enough as you go along, it's not that hard.

[retired]

For me there's 2 separate things - the instrument, and the music. You already 'know' lots of music - I would spend a lot time playing music you already know, tunes/songs you can sing/hum/whistle- that you know note for note - this way you'll get to know the whistle by ear till you can play the music in your head effortlessly on the whistle. Then you can take a new tune/song and learn it by ear till you can hear the whole thing in your head and then use the whistle to 'reproduce ' it. It's so much easier to play a piece of music that you already know, especially when you and the instrument are one. I would also suggest you learn new slow trad music before going after jigs and reels. Hope this helps- good luck and don't give up.

[MarkP]

Each to their own way but I'd suggest the opposite, to listen to as much as you can of good trad playing (whistle or other instrument) and get a sense of what you'd like to sound like, learn to hum/sing those tunes and you're away, rather than laying down your whistle habits and foundations on a different music. But I guess it depends if your main motivation is to play the whistle or to play the tunes. I had the impression you'd been been drawn towards playing Irish traditional music and the whistle was your way into it, rather than the other way round but I might have misunderstood.

[German Whistler]

dont think the whistle is easy and one can (should be able to) learn it in a "few weeks"
i am playing a little more than a year now and still think that i am a beginner, maybe an advanced beginner but beginner
... give it some time

[dspmusik]

one of the tough things about learning a secondary instrument is, we forget how long it took to become adept at the first one. let's say it took 5,000 hours, or 5 years or however you want to measure it, to become fluid and comfortable with hand percussion.
Since you have been at your current level of musicality for a length of time, it's easy to forget how slow the learning process is.
everyone's advice has been good, the only thing i'll add is to "enjoy the journey". setting goals is fine (to learn "Kesh Jig" at 80 bpm, etc.), but enjoying all the steps getting there is the key. Have fun and celebrate even the simplest songs, or even phrases. Play along with recordings in G major (with your hi D whistle) and just make music.
eventually, get that Gibraltar bass pedal for your cajon and sit and play that with your feet (maybe a cowbell on a pedal for the other foot?) and your whistle with your hands. if you've got 4 limbs, why not use them all?

[Sirchronique]

I think it's normal for anyone to feel that way when starting a new instrument. I also think sometimes people (not necessarily you) assume it's easier to sound nice on a whistle than other instruments, when really it's no different, with the same effort required. I felt the same way as you when I started on wind instruments - very discouraged at first. Just give it plenty of practice, and you'll be very surprised by the progress you've made in one year.

I wouldn't say it's necessarily not "your instrument" , but it simply requires something much different than percussion does, so it might be a tad outside of your musical comfort zone, and requiring a different approach than you've taken to drumming. It might be best to just try to forget about any preconceptions you have about learning instruments, which you have acquired from your drumming experience. It's apples and oranges. While there are some similarities in learning any instrument, the demands of whistle and percussion are too different to judge your learning of one, based upon the experience with the other.



When I started on wind instruments, I wanted to snap it in half and just throw it in the trash everytime I played it during the first quite a few months of playing. I thought it would be impossible. You've only been at it for a matter of weeks, so give it time and I promise you'll get past that phase of it seeming impossible.

And yes, as mentioned, get as much exposure to good trad whistlers, and whistlers in general. After you have plenty of exposure, find whistlers whose sound appeals to you, then pay close attention to the details of what they are doing to get that sound. Of course, it doesn't hurt to learn music you are already familiar with in the beginning, either. No reason one can't do both.

I will say, it will only discourage you if you are measuring your progress on a week-to-week basis. Every few months look back at the progress you've made, and then you will notice it's more significant than you think. After a few weeks or months after starting, though, I wouldn't expect anyone to be sounding good playing anything. That's absolutely normal. Prepare to sound terrible for quite some time, but just remember, it's temporary.

I'm by no means a professional, however I was once in your situation , so this advice is based upon what's worked in helping me to steadily progress.

Once you hit a milestone of learning to do something on the whistle that you thought you couldn't do, you'll be so invigorated by it that you probably won't want to put it down. It takes some time to reach that experience after starting for many people, though.

Good luck!

[jadoop]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was using the CD that came with the book and listening to Mr. Larsen play some of the tunes at 90 BPM and frustrated that I was stuck around 60... It really was silly of me to compare my progress on the different instruments; being able to hold 11/8 time at 200 BPM on the drums doesn't really help much with the whistle.

I think I'm going to view the tin whistle as (for the most part) a separate path on my journey.

[Sirchronique]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was using the CD that came with the book and listening to Mr. Larsen play some of the tunes at 90 BPM and frustrated that I was stuck around 60... It really was silly of me to compare my progress on the different instruments; being able to hold 11/8 time at 200 BPM on the drums doesn't really help much with the whistle.

I think I'm going to view the tin whistle as (for the most part) a separate path on my journey.

It would be better to forget about speed altogether for awhile, and just work on proper timing, breathing, and proper execution. Once you can do things well at a slower speed, it is not so difficult to then play it at any speed. You must be able to crawl properly before you can run, though.

[ecohawk]

There are a lot of good ideas here.

IMHO the two best pieces of advice you've received here are to break the tune down into parts, and to slooooow down in the beginning.

If I could add anything it would be that you spend some time observing where the best places to breathe are - for you. It took me not quite two years and advice from some of the oldsters here on C&F to comprehend that some tunes require breathing at specific spots where others seemingly have no logical places to breath. So you need pay some attention to how you're going to approach all facets of breath control. That will be where you first note significant improvement.

Play for the joy of it,
ecohawk

[hoopy mike]

I have a background in percussion and hand drums (bongos, cajon) and ITM recently started appealing to me. I got a Clarke D whistle along with Grey Larsen's "Essential Guide". I've been practicing for a few hours per day for a couple weeks. I understand and can execute the basics (cuts, slides) but when I try to practice one of the simple songs he has in there I just can't string it all together. Despite hours of practicing the tune I can't remember more than the first couple measures of even the simplest jig.

When I first picked up a drum it felt natural, kind of like a direct connection to my inner rhythm. Did the whistle feel like that to any of you guys when you first started? To me it feels cumbersome and labored; I just get the feeling that this isn't "my instrument" if you know what I'm saying. I want to learn and I feel like I'm putting in the effort but not seeing any return. Thoughts?

How hard are you hitting the whistle?

[Jleo Fipple]

've been practicing for a few hours per day for a couple weeks.

Hi there Jadoop, can you play the melody without ornamentation for the Larsen beginner tune? I'm sure you can and just want to say that though it sounds simple that nicely ornamented tune in Larsen book is not a beginner tune the beginner lesson would be to play the melody of the tune leaving the ornamentation out i.e. after you've got the melody under you fingers try working solo on the cuts solo then work on the taps solo. As a relative new whistler (less than year) I've spent multiple hours working on ornaments alone never mind trying to stick them into a tune in the first 2 weeks. Good luck and keep whistling

[German Whistler]

as several people alreadsy said and explained, there is so much more than speed
, having a feeling for the tune, know where to breath, know how to breath, ornamentation ,...
speed? just makes a beginner miss all the important things