The Problem with Brass Sindts and Clogging.

[Sirchronique]

I know there are regularly many posts about whistles clogging, and the same answers again and again, but I am posting this for a different reason which is very different from this issue in many other whistles.

One of my sindts, which appears to be the oldest of the ones I own, clogs... A lot! I thought perhaps it was just a problem with that individual whistle, as not all of my sindts do this. Over time I have talked to several sindt owners online, and after some time all of them that I talked to and mentioned this problem have had this same problem. Some of them are some well known accomplished players, so it is definitely a whistle problem, and not a problem of not warming, incorrect breath pressure, or simply needing cleaned, etc. I recently came across a post on another forum where three sindt owners mentioned having this problem, which inspired me to post this.

To fix it, I just have to regularly do the soap trick each time the problem comes back. The soap trick lasts for about a week maximum on this particular sindt that gives me the problem, then it comes back again. I do not think this is a problem of debris in the windway, being cold, etc.

I think the problem is a result of the thin brass strip that is on both sides of the windway. My hypothesis is that this becomes corroded/patina'd on the sides of the windway, and this gives moisture something to cling to.

Don't get me wrong, I love my sindts better than any other whistle! However, I have to admit this is a problem, and this is an issue many people have, and I wonder if it's from that brass. I'd like to hear from more owners of sindts on this. If you have had a brass one for awhile, did you get this issue?

I also ESPECIALLY want to hear from owners of non-brass sindts, or sindts with the all-delrin head. Do you get this issue on those? I suspect not, but I'd like to hear if you do, or don't.

To be clear, the problem I am talking about is a very frequent clogging, especially after spending some time in the upper second octave. Almost like the clogging that some people have with goldies or overtons (which a cure has recently been posted on the forum!). Same symptoms, same type of constant clogging, exact problem down to every detail. That problem was corrosion on the goldie, and I think that's the problem here, too.

If I have to do the soap trick the rest of my life on this whistle, I don't mind, the whistle is worth it.. but I have to wonder if there might be a cure for it, and that's another reason I'm posting this. I have not done that toothpaste trick because I don't know how that will affect the delrin in the windway. However, if the problem is the brass in the windway, is there a way to clear off the corrosion or patina in that thin strip of brass in the mouthpiece *without* doing any harm to, or scratching, the delrin in the windway?


I really want to get to the bottom of this like has been done with goldies. It's a problem I am finding many many people have. I can't think of any other possible problem other than the brass in the mouthpiece. Other whistles with an all-delrin windway don't do this. Also, newer sindts don't do this (I own some, and they don't do it!). This leads me to believe it's a problem of corrosion on the brass in the windway. If a burke or something clogs a lot, I simply run isopropyl alcohol through the windway, dip a strip of a styrofoam plate into dishsoap solution, and run it through the mouthpiece and clean it, and the problem is gone for about ten months to a year! So, it's not usual clogging that comes from a whistle needing a simple cleaning.

Please, share your thoughts on this, experiences with clogging on sindts, or whether or not the clogging factor is present on sindts without brass in the windway, and, most of all- please discuss how this might be remedied! I'd like to know if there is a way to get the brass so it won't do that, if that's indeed the problem.

[kkrell]

Dip the head in vinegar to dissolve the corrosion?

[Sirchronique]

Dip the head in vinegar to dissolve the corrosion?

I'm interested in hearing more about this. Can anyone with knowledge of delrin say whether or not it's safe to have finegar on delrin, or whether or not it would harm the brass?

Have you tried this with a sindt? I would like to hear more about this. If the issue is caused by what I think is causing it, and the solution is as simple as vinegar, myself and many others would be quite overjoyed to hear it! I just want to know if it's 100% certainly okay to do, before I go doing it with one of my most valued whistles!

If it's safe and it works, I'm down to try it! Thanks!

[Mr.Gumby]

Every whistle needs occasional blowing out to clear it but never had a problem to interfere with playing. No mention of any problems from Sindt users I know either.

[Cayden]

Dip the head in vinegar to dissolve the corrosion?

I'm interested in hearing more about this. Can anyone with knowledge of delrin say whether or not it's safe to have finegar on delrin, or whether or not it would harm the brass?

Have you tried this with a sindt? I would like to hear more about this. If the issue is caused by what I think is causing it, and the solution is as simple as vinegar, myself and many others would be quite overjoyed to hear it! I just want to know if it's 100% certainly okay to do, before I go doing it with one of my most valued whistles!

If it's safe and it works, I'm down to try it! Thanks!

It would seem to me that vinegar being an acid might lead to more corrosion of the metal, rather than less. Do others agree?

Cayden

[brewerpaul]

I agree with Cayden that acid could possibly damage the brass. Probably not, but why risk it? Vinegar won't harm Delrin-- it's resistant to just about everything which is why it's widely used in medical and food processing applications.
The biggest problem with metal in the head is the temperature of the metal. Cold metal + moist,warm breath is a setup for condensation.
For my own whistles with their metal head ferrule, I recommend warming the head up BEFORE playing. I just stick mine in an empty pants pocket for a couple of minutes, or tuck it under my arm. It rarely if ever clogs unless I let the head cool off. Ditto for my Glodie A. For the occasional clog during a gig , I suck in sharply rather than blowing out with a finger over the windway. It works better, is safer for the blade, and can be done mid-tune almost without missing a beat.
Even though most of the Sindt head is Delrin, warming it up is a good idea.

[kkrell]

Vinegar (and salt if some scrubbing is needed) is pretty common as a brass cleaner to restore shine. Yes, you rinse it off well when you're done. I use it if I don't want a patina. However, I also have never had my Sindt clog.

[Feadoggie]

I also have never had my Sindt clog.

Same here.

I will note that body chemistry and local environmental conditions are not to be overlooked. I play a number of brass whistles regularly and I do not have near the same tarnish and corrosion issues with my whisltes as do others I know who playing the same model whistles. Just keep 'em clean.

Feadoggie

[retired]

If you have oxide buildup on the very small amount of brass on the sides of the mouthpiece, and you want to 'polish' it, you want to be sure NOT to mess with the Delrin surfaces - you'll never get them smooth if you scratch them. One possibility is to take a thin piece of paper packaging (stiffer than sheet paper) put a small amount of wet toothpaste on the edge and gently rub the internal brass sides with the side of the packaging and that should do it. Gently. But before that I'd soak the head in warm water and liquid soap for awhile first, then run a wet piece of soft cotton cloth through the mouthpiece to make sure there's no goop build-up in the head - doesn't take much.

[maki]

Yep, try the tooth paste polish.

[ytliek]

Why don't you ask the man himself? Who knows better than the maker?

The wide circle of whistlers here ALL have Sindts and never mentioned a thing about clogging whistles, old or new, brass or delrin etc., although everyone shakes out their whistles, and cleans their whistles regularly. There are more than a few Sindt owners here. No clogging issue more than any other brand of whistle though.

I can't think of any other possible problem other than the brass in the mouthpiece. Other whistles with an all-delrin windway don't do this.

As people get older... do they drool any more than they used to? Just saying... respectfully.

I can think of a slew of other possibilities.

[ecohawk]

While I have no doubt you're experiencing this problem, I've never heard anyone else complain about it so I'm wondering if it's a Sindt whistle problem or a problem with whistles in general. I have 9 Sindt's and two of them in high D are more than 10 years old. Though I've never seen an all delrin Sindt head, the two older models have different heads, shorter and narrower than current models.

None of them clog. However, all of the whistles I play and from many makers, as MrGumby noted, do occasionally need to be blown or shaken out to clear moisture. Of course, I am a pretty dry player in general so maybe I'm not credible on this issue. If you search C&F you will find threads on how to become a "drier" player and some say that this improves over time anyway.

I'd also try the toothpaste method just to see if that helps. It seems to have really helped those who struggle with this issue on Overton type whistles with a narrow windway.

Good luck,
ecohawk

[MTGuru]

You can add me to the ranks of players whose Sindts (D and C) do not experience clogging problems.

From previous posts, people here know that I accept that problems like this may sometimes be the fault of the instrument; the player is not always to blame. But I wonder if the latter is true in this case.

If you tend to blow too timidly for what the whistle "wants", and you're not playing near the top of the breath envelope, moisture which would normally be blown clear of the windway may get stuck. So the first thing to try is blowing a bit harder. You may find you've been underblowing. Which is a shame with a Sindt, since it responds nicely with some chirp and character when played closer to the edge.

Anyway, that may account for the few reported cases of clogging mentioned by the OP, while the majority here seem not to have the problem.

I don't suppose the toothpaste treatment would hurt, as long as the Delrin isn't scoured.

[Sirchronique]

I own quite a few sindts, and only one of them does this horribly. Another one does it just a tiny bit, and I assume it needs cleaned, and the other ones don't do it at all. Again, I'm not saying all sindts do this. I am saying this is definitely a problem some people have had with their sindt. How widespread the problem is, I have no idea. I definitely know at least 3 others have it.

If the problem is me not doing simple things that are standard whistle practice like keeping it clean, warming it, blowing it out, etc. then it is strange that none of the other 60 whistles I own ever had this issue.

One of the other people who had this problem mentioned that they emailed John and was told to do clean it in water and use dishsoap. It worked for an extremely short amount of time, then it came back. I trust this person knows whistles well enough to go through the obvious suggestions, as they are a professional musician of quite some years. Again, not saying every sindt has this problem, but I've read at least a few cases of an identical problem with a sindt, and not from complete newbies, either. One of the reasons I made this post is to determine if it's as widespread as I thought, or if not many other people had the issue.

On one occasion I've had to do the soap trick twice in one weekend! I've tried it all, really. I've cleaned the windway with a strip of styrofoam plate very carefully and thoroughly, with both dish soap and isopropyl alcohol, I've warmed the whistle very thoroughly, etc.


For some time I also wondered if maybe the problem is a scratch inside the windway. I bought a pretty large amount of sindts for a period of time ,and I can't remember who I bought this particular one from(I had multiple ones coming at the same time!). However, I am just now remembering that very shortly before I bought this sindt I saw a post on a very popular irish trad website where somebody posted having the same problem with their sindt. I'm wondering if I bought that same one and if something is indeed wrong with it. It would be kind of ironic, becuase I gave similar advice about warming it and cleaning it and clearing it out on that thread!

I have no idea what the problem is, but I can say it's the whistle, not me. I own 11 sindts, and only this one does it., and definitely other players have had the problem, although perhaps it's not as widespread as I had thought. I now think I will email John and see if I can send this one to him so he can see what's wrong, if he's willing to do that. I'm really thinking I bought one that had some type of problem with it. Between that post shortly before I bought it about an identical sindt problem, and the fact that it didn't look well taken care of when I got it, I am thinking something was wrong with it.

When I got it there was a thick very green heavily patina'd spot right in front of the window. After I got the clogging really badly upon trying the whistle, I assumed the previous owner had that problem too, and evidently had to blow it out a lot. That spot below the window looked like somebody had blown it out then let the moisture sit on the surfave of the brass in that area without wiping it off! By the look of this whistle, the previous owner definitely had the exact same problem with this individual whistle, I am sure.

If I do the soap trick, it's good usually for at least a few days, then it starts happening again, and I wash it out and must do it again. I will say again, the problem feels identical to what I had with some overtons I used to have. Exact same type of issue. Anyone who had the overton problem knows that the regular things you do with a whistle just don't solve what was going wrong. It's the same deal here.

I hope you can all understand that if I am having such a problem then witness three other people saying they had the same problem (in addition to the one case from before I bought it), why I would wonder if it's a widespread problem that many people have, and, or not, and think that it might be.

And yes, John did make an all delrin head. Type in "delrin sindt head" onto google image search, and look at the sixth picture from the left. It was posted on this very website.

Sindts are my favourite whistles of all time, so I am hoping I can fix whatever the problem is with this one sindt! Any further recommendations would be appreciated, however, the suggestions about keeping it warm , blowing with a good pressure, cleaning it, not eating between tunes, clearing it out, etc. are certainly not the case with this individual whistle. If I don't get it fixed within a couple of months and there is somebody who is a reputable member of the forum who might be able to diagnose what's wrong, I'd even be willing to let you see for yourself, perhaps.

[MTGuru]

Fair enough, SirC, if you're sure it's the whistle. A bad one, or possibly previously damaged. If polishing the windway doesn't work, I'd send it back to John for inspection and/or revoicing. Online discussion won't solve the problem, or tell you much that's statistically meaningful about a one-off clunker.