Please explain church

[Elvellon]

From reading this forum it seems one of the most common uses of whistles (or even pipes!) is playing in church. I come from a country with an "ominous latin chanting" kind of church and I presume that's a US thing.
Please explain. Do Protestant churches have music with keyboards, guitar, whistles etc? Is it mainstream churches or only some kind of modern charismatic ones? Maybe also some Catholic movements?
What's the usual composition and skill of the players? Do they play modern-written songs? Is it common for amateur musicians with nowhere else to play/socialize to play in church?
Non-American folks - do you have it in your countries and churches?

Thanks for your answers! I'm mostly interested how mainstream this phenomenon is religion-wise and whether it's common for amateur musicians to socialize this way.

[hoopy mike]

In England, about 250 years ago, it was common for the village band to supply music for church services. In some older churches you can even see gaps cut into pews to accomodate trombone slides. The composition of the band would depend on who lived in the village. Sometimes the musicians would arrive for church rather worse for wear after playing gigs on the Saturday evenings, much to the disgust of the clergy. Many English hymn tunes are really folk melodies.

That all changed with the arrival of the organ. The clergy saw an opportunity to control the music played in church through influencing one man - the organist - rather than having to deal with a bunch of musicians.

In the 1970s, the balance of power began to be challenged in some churches, initially in the charismatic / pentecostal churches, where choruses began to be played on guitar. The roots of this probably go back to the 1970s folk revival in England.

The current situation is mixed. Some "traditional" churches stick to organ, but it's much more common for churches to have "worship bands" which could consist of guitar, keyboard, drums, bass and assorted other voice instruments such as violin, flute, trumpet, sax and maybe even a whistle.

Folk is making a comeback in churches through musicians such as Stuart Townend (see youtube). Other styles are available too....

[kokopelli]

Music in church is something with a very wide variety within the US. There are some churches that don't like music at all, some that like only old hymns or even chanting, some that have no accompaniment aside from an organ or piano, some that have just a guitar, some that have a full band... the varieties go on and on. It really depends on how they feel about music and whether certain things add detract, or whether they are an aid or a distraction. In the same way, some churches want more upbeat and "mainstream" music but don't have members that can play it. Others pay the musicians who play music each week. There are so many different ways that things are done that I think you could find just about anything. And this is within both protestant and catholic churches, though from my limited experience there seem to be more protestant churches than catholic churches that have full bands.

I would say, and hope, that it's really not generally an area for people who simply want to play music and socialize. There's a purpose behind it. Or at least there should be. Musicians without much experience can often find a welcoming audience at their church, but in my experience it really is not an opportunity for anybody who wants to show off the latest song they've been working on. The idea is that the music performed in a church, like the other activities within the church, should have a focus on God and help other people make that connection.

[Mr.Gumby]

From reading this forum it seems one of the most common uses of whistles (or even pipes!) is playing in church

Which probably once more goes to show the internet is great at creating false impressions.

That said, I have found myself wondering at the apparent interest of churchy people for using the whistle in religious practices.

[hoopy mike]

That said, I have found myself wondering at the apparent interest of churchy people for using the whistle in religious practices.

Flutes used to be associated with Roman orgies, which meant that for years they didn't get a look in at church.

[Mr Ed]

That said, I have found myself wondering at the apparent interest of churchy people for using the whistle in religious practices.

I think it boils down to the same reasons singers, organists, guitarists, etc. want to use their music talent in prayer/worship. I'd play bass at Mass if I could.

[pancelticpiper]

Do Protestant churches have music with keyboards, guitar, whistles etc? Is it mainstream churches or only some kind of modern charismatic ones? Maybe also some Catholic movements?
What's the usual composition and skill of the players? Do they play modern-written songs? Is it common for amateur musicians with nowhere else to play/socialize to play in church?

What great questions!

Here in Southern California we have a bewildering variety of churches: traditional mainstream denominations which have been in the USA for hundreds of years such as Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, Jewish, etc (which grew out of our British, German, and other European heritage); home-grown denominations such as LDS (Mormon), Christian Science, Seventh-Day Adventists, etc; more recent introductions such as Islam and Buddism etc; and especially here in Southern California hundreds of "nondenominational" Christian churches.

My understanding is that California is the epicenter of so-called "nondenominational" Christian churches. I do know that, if you're talking to somebody and discover that they're a churchgoer chances is that they attend one of these such as Calvary Chapel etc rather than one of the traditional denominations.

These churches tend to split on a regular basis, and all of them are vying for attendance in a very competitive market (to put it in gross economic terms). Our local churchgoers tend to be fickle and "vote with their feet" and a good Pastor can quickly amass a huge following and his church will rapidly grow, sometimes to membership in the tens of thousands.

I work with a guy who's involved in these churches and a couple years ago around ten of his friends left their church and founded their own, due to differences in opinion in their former church. "How large was your former church?" I asked. "Around 20 people" he replied. I was amazed. "You couldn't get 20 people to agree on how to run a church??" I said.

Anyhow about the music thing, with pretty much any of these churches the music varies a lot. Especially with the nondenominational churches music is a big thing and they will have a full-scale "praise band" with electric guitars, keyboards, a drum kit, plus singers, other percussionists, saxophones, etc. Sometimes, with the bigger churches, these bands can be composed of top professional musicians (guys who play on the soundtracks of Hollywood films and/or who tour with top artists) who donate their time to the church. Or, these bands can be composed of "weekend warriors" who have normal "day jobs" during the week and play music only at their church.

The "praise band" repertoire usually consists of modern Christian compositions. Some of these songs have been around since the 1970s and already are regarded as being somewhat old-hat, being the favourites of the grey-haired set. Many of these songs are quite new, and they're being composed all the time by top Christian recording artists. Also these Praise Bands will play a few old traditional hymns.

With the traditional denominational churches there often is a divide between churches that do the traditional choir-and-organ music (the traditional hymns found in the old hymnals) and churches that do the "praise band" sort of music. It will vary from church to church within the same denomination, and even vary in the same church between services.

In the Roman Catholic church there's a number of Celtic-style hymns/songs which have been written over the last 30 years or so. I know a guy who plays guitar, whistle, and uilleann pipes who is the "worship leader" at a Catholic church and his band consists of Irish harp, guitar, fiddle, whistles, pipes, etc.

I'm Catholic myself and our Parish is more or less evenly divided between English-speaking, Spanish-speaking, and Vietnamese-speaking parishioners. Besides we have enough Filipinos to have a Tagalog choir. Each Mass will have its own musical flavor in keeping with the language used.

[pancelticpiper]

From reading this forum it seems one of the most common uses of whistles (or even pipes!) is playing in church

Which probably once more goes to show the internet is great at creating false impressions.

Or creating true impressions!

Myself, as a working piper (Highland and uilleann, plus whistle), find that the vast majority of my gigs are funerals and weddings, and most of the time when I'm playing I'm playing inside a church.

[Mikethebook]

In the Roman Catholic church there's a number of Celtic-style hymns/songs which have been written over the last 30 years or so. I know a guy who plays guitar, whistle, and uilleann pipes who is the "worship leader" at a Catholic church and his band consists of Irish harp, guitar, fiddle, whistles, pipes, etc.

Wow, I would love that!!

Our church is very traditional when it comes to worship instruments: guitar, keyboards, bass, drums, occasionally fiddle. But I've had it said to me by several people including one of the worship leaders that whistles (low and high) lend more of a sense of both mysticism/transcendence and intimacy to worship . . . and now that I'm going to be involved, I hope and pray that will be the case.

[ytliek]

Not a plug for anything here... our Catholic church for many years was the old styled organ only with a small choir. As the church has somewhat modernized the mass is offered in a few different ways, just a chanter, old style organ/choir, a guitars/singers folk (maybe another instrument or two), and the music is from the hymnals. The times mass is offered with various forms of music has allowed the parishoners to choose their liking. BTW, this parish invested heavily in a pipe organ 2007, designed and built by Casavant Frères, organ builders based in St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, the instrument is comprised of 2,107 pipes. So the organ tradition is solidly maintained.

Again not a plug for anything... some of the parishes are adopting more contemporary Christian music offered by monks/musicians like JMT.
http://johnmichaeltalbot.com/index.cfm?load=page&page=4

And there are Rock Churches locally that offer a more rocking type of atmosphere.

So the OP questions do pose interesting music queries.

[Elvellon]

Fascinating answers so far, thanks everyone!
Sorry if my comments about people socializing (musically or otherwise) in church seemed offensive. I respect religion and used to be religious myself.

Didn't anticipate this

In England, about 250 years ago, it was common for the village band to supply music for church services.

and the Catholic worship bands!
and

From reading this forum it seems one of the most common uses of whistles is playing in church
Which probably once more goes to show the internet is great at creating false impressions.

Probably this seems so unusual to me that I noticed it every time it got mentioned.

The American competitive "church market" is something I've been thinking about too (does it lead to greater public/state expressions of religiosity since there isn't a single religious organization that's perceived to be "squeezing into" public affairs?), but that's a can of worms for another forum!

[fearfaoin]

I come from a country with an "ominous latin chanting" kind of church

I'm curious what country that is... Are you willing to part with that information?

As hoopymike said, the folk revival (which I think was more in the 60s in the US) gets credited a lot for the change in modern church music. Now there's a lot of "Christian rock" and "Contemporary Christian" music, which are largely modern compositions, that get used a lot in the non-denominational churches and the newer denominations (and increasingly in the "traditional" denominations). Brian Doerksen seems to have written a lot of the more popular contemporary worship music.
In fact a lot of the local Catholic/Lutheran/Episcopal/etc. churches have started having one Sunday service with folk or contemporary music and another with "traditional" organ and choir music to make more people happy.

[Feadoggie]

It is a good question. Yes, we should stay away from the cans with the worms. Let's just say that religious diversity is thriving here in the US even though most congregations can still be quite homogeneous but each in their own ways.

I've worked as a worship leader since retiring. My wife and daughter are both ministers. And as a result we've had the opportunity to tour most of the regional churches that offer contemporary and "emerging" worship. We've helped churches launch contemporary worship services and we've helped start church communities based on music and a meal. We've taken part in services held in hotel lounges, public schools (on Sunday when the schools are not in session), bars, barns, firehouse halls and on hilltops in the woods. I've played music from simple folk tunes on guitar or flute or whistle to hard driving rock. And I've had the joy of playing a eU2charist. And I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

It is, as has been said already, a matter of what people find spiritual or as a means of expressing the spirit.

Feadoggie

[Nanohedron]

And I've had the joy of playing a eU2charist. And I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

Ah, the 1st groan of the day.

[sackbut]

Our (evangelical C of E) church still sometimes uses an organ - but mainly praise bands containing an average of 5 musicians, usually keyboard, bass & drums plus any of the following: guitar, clarinet, oboe, flute, violin, cello, French horn, trumpet, trombone, etc.

We are fortunate to have strong links with the Royal Northern College of Music's Christian Union, so most of the musicians are coming from a classical tradition, though often with jazz and/or rock awareness; less links with folk - though the director of music also has a storming ceilidh band as part of his freelance day job.

But the reason my whistle doesn't get an airing in worship is not that whistles would be unacceptable, just that we are overflowing with musicians, and there is also a preference for people who can sight-read jazzy arrangements.

I'm able to contribute by running a church ceilidh band that raises funds by playing for birthdays & weddings, and uses a mixture of musicians, some that also play in the praise bands, and others that don't.