High Whistle Divide

[Mikethebook]

Is it my imagination or is there a subtle split in high whistles between those played by people who are primarily ITM high whistle players and those whose main focus in the low whistle and/or uilleann pipes? For example I've yet to see one of the latter group e.g. John McSherry. Mike McGoldrick etc playing a Sindt . . . possibly the most sought after high D whistle. On the other hand, I haven't heard of the likes of Mary Bergin etc playing a Goldie high D. A trivial question but I'm curious. The original cheap whistles, Generations, Feadogs might transcend these boundaries but I wonder whether other makes of high whistle appeal to one group more than the other. I wouldn't know how to set up a poll but it might be interesting. Anyone have the time to waste with their own view?

[Mr.Gumby]

It's, obviously, a stylistic/aesthetic choice.

[pancelticpiper]

A very interesting question. I suppose to start out with one would need data, that is, a catalogue of the "go-to" whistles of the leading professionals who are primarily high-whistle players, and of the "go-to" whistles of the leading professionals who are primarily uilleann pipers.

I say that because a pro will own a large number of whistles, but usually have a favourite, an "axe", a default or go-to instrument.

I have seen that pipers tend to play low whistles quite a bit. I'm an example of that, as I play pipes (uilleann and highland) and I prefer a Low D whistle over any other. But it seems to be the same with Paddy Keenan, Joe McKenna, the list could go on.

What I find interesting is the different style that pipers tend to play on whistle: Finbar Furey, Joe McKenna, and other pipers of that generation would do loads of double-cut rolls on the whistle (but curiously not on the pipes).

[Mikethebook]

Thanks for your thought. But I also wonder whether it applies to the rest of us not just the pros so a poll might be interesting, taking a list of leading makes of high whistle and asking C&F owners to mark which category of player they belong to, the ITM purist or the low whistle player . . . if they are able to make that distinction.

Thinking about the Sindt, it does have the "cheap" sound (even if it’s a refined cheap) of the classic traditional cheap whistles, that appeals to the purist ITM high whistle player. Whereas a Goldie, for example, has much less of that, a more expensive smoother tone that is equally at home in other sphere's of music. It's a better cross over instrument. Unfortunately, to my knowledge there aren't many expensive high D's like the Sindt that so clearly keep the traditional tin whistle sound. You will probably contradict me right away by producing a list!!

The question has come about through my own search for the ideal high D for myself. I found the ideal Low D a year ago, when I first started, in a Goldie soft-blower. I've tried a number of Freemans, all good whistles and wondered about a Sindt, but I also wonder, in keeping with my own identity as a low whistle player, if I wouldn't prefer a Goldie high D, or Alba or Lofgren, and a sound that is slightly less trad than the Sindts, Feadogs and Generations.

[Feadoggie]

What high whistle divide? I don't see one from where I sit or where I've traveled. You may be over thinking this a bit.

Feadoggie

[Mikethebook]

Nobody ever accused me of over thinking But you may be right!!

[Feadoggie]

Nobody ever accused me of over thinking

Aha! There's a first then.

I see a lot more diversity among players over here on the East Coast of a Mary Kay. And I can tell you that the good players try every whistle that they can get their hands on. But they will gravitate and stick to to what fits their needs best. The whistles you have gravitated to are really good whistles and you have your reasons for playing them. They do what you expect. They fill the deep needs you have for a whistle. And that is how it should be.

This does come to mind though. Many players do develop a relationship with certain makers. Some of it has to do with points in time and shared experiemce. And some of it may have to do with geography. Some of it has to do with availability as well. Some of it has to do with sonic fashion.

Low whistles were the "next big thing" for a while. So players gravitated to them because the sound of the mix was changing (and bouzoukis came along as well). For quite some time if you wanted a good reliable low whistle you bought an Overton. That was what was available. And as has been said once you find your "axe" you stick with it especially if it defines your sound or the sound your audience expects.

Then other makers like Copeland came into the market. So I saw a lot of European players with Overtons (still do but they are now Goldies) in their bags and a lot of Americans playing Copelands. Ok, I also come from Philadelphia so I saw a lot more Copelands (and Mr. Copeland himself) than others may have been seeing. Weasels and Abells had their moments in the sun too in the hands of a lot of pros. Pat O'Riordan's whistles came along and left a big impression on many of us.

Time moved along. The sonic fashion pendulum swung back a bit. High and alto-ish whistles became common again. The low F whistle chorus emerged. More makers entered the market. More players took up the instrument(s) and the field expanded. I do see a lot of Sindts. They are good whistles. John Sindt doesn't make low whistles. Maybe that causes the divide you observe. I also see a lot of Burkes. Mike Burke does make whistles in every key a player could want. Many players look for a maker that fills the bill for all the keys they need to play. Goldie and Burke seem to have the edge there just as Copeland once did. I guess Susato is in there somewhere too. Gens are still prominent in their use as are Abells and others. MK's are heralded by some, but I have not seen one yet. Misha Somerville only offers a couple of keys. And you'd see the occasional Grinter in the hands of a couple well known players. Competition whistling is another story. I don't want to get into that.

So I think there is a fairly wide field of focus among players.

We could talk about flutes next. The divide between Olwell and Hamilton anyone?

Maybe we should do a whistle bracket to see who comes out on top - April Insanity! I guess it's too late for that now.

Feadoggie

[Mikethebook]

Interesting thoughts! It's always interesting to look back and see what's gone before.

[ytliek]

And to see what's coming forward.

[Feadoggie]

Interesting thoughts! It's always interesting to look back and see what's gone before.

And to see what's coming forward.

Yes, I think you are both on to it. There is a continuum that we are all part of. When I started playing the whistle you only had Gens and Clarkes to choose between. The keys available were limited. No one thought much about making their own whistles. That has changed and I expect things will continue to change as whistle players and whistle makers come and go.

But it sure is nice to have all the choices that we have today. Isn't it?

Feadoggie

[ecohawk]

Based on my experience here on C&F I doubt it can be narrowed down to anywhere near these two categories. It's like my rabbi told me once about my fellow yid's, "ask three guys one question and you'll get four answers".

I myself being relatively new to whistle (a little over five years I think) play all keys and all kinds of music. ITM is where I started though and where I spend most of my time but I don't play it exclusively on high or low D whistles. In fact, I play a Copeland or Goldie alto A as much as anything else these days. YMMV of course and mine has too, over time.

ecohawk

[Mikethebook]

Choice I sometimes think is a mixed blessing . . . especially if you've a temperament like me that likes to analyse carefully a decision but struggles to make it. And we're inundated with choices all the times to a ridiculous extent. I counted about thirty types of packaged ham in the supermarket the other day and I'm sure it's worse in the US. No, it is nice to have a choice of whistles but I struggle in deciding what I want. It wasn't that long ago that we had very few choices was it? Even more recent that if you wanted a low D whistle you had the choice of Overton or not. Its no wonder we have WHOAD but with a limited budget I want to make sure I buy the right whistles for myself . . . and the huge range makes it hard.

[Peter Duggan]

if I wouldn't prefer a Goldie high D, or Alba or Lofgren

You'd hate the Alba I had (and sold), which started quite soft at the lower end but then needed blowing harder, and harder, and harder (but could take it if the player could!) to keep the ascending second octave in tune...

This does come to mind though. Many players do develop a relationship with certain makers. Some of it has to do with points in time and shared experiemce. And some of it may have to do with geography. Some of it has to do with availability as well. Some of it has to do with sonic fashion.

Mike Burke does make whistles in every key a player could want. Many players look for a maker that fills the bill for all the keys they need to play. Goldie and Burke seem to have the edge there just as Copeland once did. I guess Susato is in there somewhere too.

Hans Bracker for me on all counts!

[Lars Larry Mór Mott]

Hans Bracker for me on all counts!

And Marc Löfgren for me, although i am increasingly intrigued by the Brackers (WHOAD warning ringing)

[pancelticpiper]

the ITM purist or the low whistle player

This strikes me as an odd distinction, because my first teacher/mentor back in the late 70s/early 80s, as much of an "ITM purist" as can be imagined, played low whistle (an early Overton Low D) as his primary instrument. He also played flute but for whatever reason he seemed to favour that tweaked Overton.

About the "cheap whistle sound", when I started playing, in the 70s, everybody played Generation Ds because that was pretty much all that was available. If you got into ITM your quest was a straightforward one: find the best-playing Generation D you could.

Listening to all the good players playing Generation Ds made that sound become in my mind the definitive genuine traditional ITM whistle sound. I still believe that a really good Generation is the best whistle for ITM, both in tone and in performance. My 35 year old Generation C is still the best whistle in any key at any price I've ever played. It's that combination of round fullbodied low notes and incredibly sweet clear high notes, found in great Generations, that I prize.

Though I've played most or all of the older makes out there, I do admit that there are many newer makers that I don't know anything about.