Finger extension

[Bobj]

Any thoughts on how far fingers should be extended when playing?

I notice that I tend to completely extend my fingers and then pound on the holes when I try to play fast. After 3 hours of playing during Contra dances, my finger joints are sore the next day.

I was wondering if minimal finger movement might allow me to play faster, but I haven't been able to both make small finger movements and fast finger movements at the same time.

[Bloomfield]

I am currently trying to keep my finger movements small, after being sneered at by a recorder player... I find that trying to keep my fingers straight, playing more or less from the knuckle-joint alone helps. I take tunes I know well and try to play them fast and with minimal movement. Can't say I've gotten good at it, yet.

When unsure or rushed I tend to make my finger movements big, almost jerking the finger tips away from the whistle. :roll:

[jim stone]

I think it's really worth learning
to play with minimal finger extension.
One plays faster and more accurately;
also there is less possibility of
injuring oneself--one wants be playing
indefinitely, if possible.

Practicing minimal extension while
playing slowly is helpful, I think.
This tends to slowly move into
fast playing. Relaxing is essential.
I find good posture and hand/arm
position is required--I often
imagine that the whistle is floating
in my hands and I try to purposely
make the motions relaxed and
minimal. One can do this with
fast tunes, too. Deliberate practice
really helps, though I also have
a ways to go.

[Tyghress]

Interesting....

I've been experiencing finger pain daily for about 2 solid months now. I've taken breaks from keyboarding at the PC, and from riding (the horse has a mighty pull when he sets his mind to it) but the pain persists, and stiffness, especially in the morning. I haven't set the whistle aside, and I do tend to play quite a bit every day (not that you can tell from my skill level!)

Per advice, I've seen the doctor, who did his bloodwork and has referred me to a rheumatologist, whom I will be seeing next week. I really hope he doesn't want me to avoid whistling, even for a brief time.

The best whistler I know has very very small movements of his fingers, delicate and light. I'm trying to retrain myself to emulate him. Logic says that smaller movements are quicker to perform and easier to change. I'm also flattening my grip a bit, even on the soprano D, figuring that if it works for pipers (the 'throw on D' is one of the fastest routine embellishments imaginable to me!) it'll work for me.

[tuugaalik]

Umm. What is a "throw on D"?

[Tyghress]

What's a throw on D? it's when, to get to a D note (fingered much like a whistle's G), you take a very long way around in a VERY short time, tweedling fingers that don't like to be tweedled that quickly. About five notes if I remember correctly, only the last of which is the D.

[ThorntonRose]

Yes, flatten your grip. Some people play with the first knuckle arched, and I don't see how they do it. When I play, the first knuckle is flat. You could also try a piper's grip.

Additionally, relax and just let your fingers flow. Often when we try to do things faster, we tense up, which actually holds us back and makes us sore later. My aikido instructor was always telling us to relax and said that our movements should be like swatting a musquito. We don't think about it and try to make our hand go fast. We just flick it out and wack the darn thing.

[mike.r]

Tyghress,
If the diagnosis from your doctor is osteo-arthritis then Condrosulf may help you.A google search will provide you with a heap of info on this.Eight years ago ,after being diagnosed with osteo.in my thumb and finger joints my guitar playing came to a crashing and painful halt.My doctor told me to get used to it as there was no cure and the best treatment cortizone.A few years on my condition reached a fairly chronic level and a friend of mind recommended Condrosulf.Within a few days my symptons were all but gone and my life began again.I've been taking this daily on and off for about 5 years and there are no side effects.I'm not cured(there is none)but it has slowed it down to the point so its not a handicap, and whistle playing is no problem.I hope this testimonial may help you in finding a solution.Peace, Mike

[TonyHiggins]

Not to knock any spelling mistakes (I was accused of being the Spelling Cop a couple of years ago. It wasn't me) but the web search may be easier with the following:
chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine, which are often found in combination. Yes, there is evidence it is effective in relieving the pain of osteoarthritis (not rheumatoid). There are also claims it aids in regenerating cartilage, but I don't think that's been substantiated.
Tony

[cowtime]

There's not just one, but two types of "throw on D" movements in piping, one is a simpler one only 4 notes to it, if Im remembering correctly, the other is calle a "hard" throw on D, that's the one with five notes. There are two schools of thought as to which is the best to use.
I was required to learn the hard throw. It's basic to piping.

[mike.r]

Tony,
In my part of the world,Condrosulf is the correct spelling for the Swiss.product I am having success with.Substantiated claims or not(there are),this is a very good product with a high success rate.If cortezone were invented today it most likely wouldnt be approved given the negative side effects.Conventional treatments represent huge profits for drug companys and `new kids on the block´always come under close scrutiny.Peace,and good health, Mike

[Tyghress]

Thanks for the suggestion. I've heard good things about the two supplements, and I'll probably hit the vitamin store this weekend. But the problem is not arthritic. My xrays were normal so no osteo-arthritis, and my rheumatoid factor was normal, so no rheumatoid arthritis (to my surprise, as there is a close family history of RA).

They didn't test for Lyme, which surprised me, but they did test for Lupus, and one of those indicators was positive (Not a diagnosis, just a possibility to watch for). When I think about this, sometimes I think "let it be anything, just don't make me stop whistling". There are precious few things in life that give me as much all around simple pleasure as whistling, and it would greive me deeply to have to set it aside.

[Cayden]

On 2001-11-14 21:57, cowtime wrote:
There's not just one, but two types of "throw on D" movements in piping, one is a simpler one only 4 notes to it, if Im remembering correctly, the other is calle a "hard" throw on D, that's the one with five notes. There are two schools of thought as to which is the best to use.
I was required to learn the hard throw. It's basic to piping.

I am not sure what sort of piping you are talkign about, it's certainly not Irish piping though.

[Tyghress]

Nope, talking about Great Highland Pipes, which are far more common here.

[tuugaalik]

I might be a bit OT here, (see, we old fuds can learn new stuff), but I am wondering about my way of half-holing. My fingers when I play are slightly curved, which is the position they take naturally, and which allows the ends to line up straight. The whole finger moves when I lift it, and I use the area half-way between the tip and first knuckle to cover the hole. To half-hole, I simply straighten the finger a bit. I can control it well, and so far haven't found a problem, but since no-one else has mentioned doing it that way, I wonder if down the road I will run into a block due to this technique. I use a similar technique for bending notes which also seems to work very well.