[quote="jim stone"]'The next thing we know to be true about war with Iraq, from a spiritual standpoint, is that the need to free the Iraqi people from tyranny and oppression supersedes even America's need to be free from terrorism. While many people question the danger Saddam Hussein poses to the United States and our allies, he's clearly a crushing danger to his own people.'Quote"
The one thing most people are ignoring about Iraq is that in the Arab world they probably have (had) one of the more open societies. In Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Syria and even Egypt. The average person has very little freedom and very few rights. If you are wealthy or in one of the extensive Royal families you are ok.
It is true they have a ruthless madman as a leader. He did use the gas we gave him to kill millions of people. (Why did we give it to him if we did not expect him to use it). We are as guilty as he is in the deaths of those people.
We do need to support our men and women who are doing their duty. We need to honor them for their courage. I fear however that we are heading into another situation like Vietnam (were I served). I do not mean here on the home front but in a country were the people just want us to leave and the long we stay the harder they fight to get us out. In a country were our cultures are so different that we dislike each other because of it. We need to support our troops by doing our best to make sure that we do not allow the government to keep them there. We need to send a message to those same troops that we are doing everything possible to bring them home from a country and a region were the are not wanted.
If we need to do this War do it and get them out. Do not place our men and women on the streets of a hostile country.
Remember we have created an office of disinformation under this Administration. In other words they feel it is within there "ethical make up" to tell false or half truths if it help them achieve there desired end. A good example of this right now would be the idea the Iraqi people were going to welcome us in and that the Iraqi people would not fight for their country.
This was like saying that American would allow our country to be invaded because we did not like the President. We would fight with stones if we had to stop an invader from getting onto our soil.
I have a nephew that is in the infantry and deployed to Iraq, he will do his duty. He know that we will be doing ours and pressuring our government to pull them out as soon as possible.
OT: Support our troops....
'Mohsen Ali, a devout Shia fingering amber beads as he spoke, said the Iraqi people would fight for Iraq, if not for President Saddam, although he supported the dictator. The country needed a strong leader, he said - even a brutal one.'
This is from the Guardian story, the link to which Jens
kindly supplied earlier. Consider what this says.
SUPPORTERS of Saddam Hussein consider him a
brutal dictator. What better indication that Saddam
is widely hated and feared by the people of Iraq!
For good reason, obviously. It's hard for us
to imagine what Saddam has cost the Iraqis,
especially in the lives of the innocent.
Would you choose,
for yourself, a brutal dictatorship led by a homicidal
lunatic? If America invaded, even if you were apprehensive,
would you choose to keep the murderous tyrant
in place, one who has accounted for the
deaths of nearly a million of your countrymen?
Would you choose that for your children?
I don't understand how people can oppose
the invasion out of sympathy for Iraqis.
This is from the Guardian story, the link to which Jens
kindly supplied earlier. Consider what this says.
SUPPORTERS of Saddam Hussein consider him a
brutal dictator. What better indication that Saddam
is widely hated and feared by the people of Iraq!
For good reason, obviously. It's hard for us
to imagine what Saddam has cost the Iraqis,
especially in the lives of the innocent.
Would you choose,
for yourself, a brutal dictatorship led by a homicidal
lunatic? If America invaded, even if you were apprehensive,
would you choose to keep the murderous tyrant
in place, one who has accounted for the
deaths of nearly a million of your countrymen?
Would you choose that for your children?
I don't understand how people can oppose
the invasion out of sympathy for Iraqis.
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Zubivka
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Thanks, spittin_in_the_wind for this appalling snapshot of the US soldiers condition.
75 billion dollars asked to Congress to-day (if only the offensive is over in less than 30 days...), and the militaries are paupers?
The price of one Tomahawk would solve the issue of college fees for a full base. One night raid on Baghdad for all the forces!
But they won't spend that much on the social issues of the militaries than on the social issues of the rest of your citizens. They know they can rely on your respecting your administration and Congress more than they respect you. They know it's poverty, not patriotism in the first place, which drives most young men to join your army. So why pay more than enough if the recruiting offices are full anyway? This is the law of the market for you.
Best of all, in the US, I suspect charity is the substitute of a true social security.
Your asking to extend it to the family of the troops is an illustration, even if it seems extremely strange seen from this side of the Ocean.
At least, I know the British soldiers are correctly paid, and to get in the best Universities, kids don't need to pay crazy tuitions, just brains. Here in backwards old Europe, it's the worst students who need to pay for private schools, if they're too lazy to really study, or work as blue-collars. This may explain also the compared social backgrounds of who gets elected...
What can I say more, beside
Join the French Foreign Legion
More than decent payroll
French nationality granted
Free university for your children
and!
Less chances to get wasted for some chicken-hawk whims.
75 billion dollars asked to Congress to-day (if only the offensive is over in less than 30 days...), and the militaries are paupers?
The price of one Tomahawk would solve the issue of college fees for a full base. One night raid on Baghdad for all the forces!
But they won't spend that much on the social issues of the militaries than on the social issues of the rest of your citizens. They know they can rely on your respecting your administration and Congress more than they respect you. They know it's poverty, not patriotism in the first place, which drives most young men to join your army. So why pay more than enough if the recruiting offices are full anyway? This is the law of the market for you.
Best of all, in the US, I suspect charity is the substitute of a true social security.
Your asking to extend it to the family of the troops is an illustration, even if it seems extremely strange seen from this side of the Ocean.
At least, I know the British soldiers are correctly paid, and to get in the best Universities, kids don't need to pay crazy tuitions, just brains. Here in backwards old Europe, it's the worst students who need to pay for private schools, if they're too lazy to really study, or work as blue-collars. This may explain also the compared social backgrounds of who gets elected...
What can I say more, beside
Join the French Foreign Legion
More than decent payroll
French nationality granted
Free university for your children
and!
Less chances to get wasted for some chicken-hawk whims.
-
jim_mc
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- Location: Surprise, AZ
Zubivka,Zubivka wrote: ...What can I say more, beside
Join the French Foreign Legion
More than decent payroll
French nationality granted
Free university for your children
and!
Less chances to get wasted for some chicken-hawk whims.
Thanks for opening up this thread to name calling and negative statements about another nation's government....
"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes."
---Mark Twain
"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me."
--- General George S. Patton
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
---Norman Schwarzkopf
"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it."
--- Marge Simpson
"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure."
---Jacques Chirac, President of France
"As far as France is concerned, you're right."
---Rush Limbaugh,
"The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee."
--- Regis Philbin
"The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know."
---P.J O'Rourke (1989)
"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it."
---John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona
"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. He is French, people."
--Conan O'Brien
"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!"
---Jay Leno
"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag."
---David Letterman
How many Frenchmen does it take to change a light bulb?
One. He holds the bulb and all of Europe revolves around him.
Next time there's a war in Europe, the loser has to keep France
FRANCE HAS ASSURED THIS WAR
The fact that they've threatened to scuttle every resolution that comes across the UN table that actually holds Saddam accountable to the UN, has given the US no choice.
We will blame France for every flag draped coffin that comes back from Iraq.
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Bloomfield
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Poor, misunderstood superpower. :roll: You just want to use the UN as an extension of your foreign policy and France isn't letting you?TubeDude wrote:...
FRANCE HAS ASSURED THIS WAR
The fact that they've threatened to scuttle every resolution that comes across the UN table that actually holds Saddam accountable to the UN, has given the US no choice.
We will blame France for every flag draped coffin that comes back from Iraq.
/Bloomfield
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Blackbeer
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Sorry Tubedude but we won`t all be blaming France for every flag draped coffin that comes back to us. Nor will we pay any attention to your laim retoric.
In regards to the subject of this thread I can only say that my heart hangs heavy with grief for my comrads in arms. They are my brothers and sisters and they are once again in harms way under dubious cercumstanses. I have been in lala land since this outrage began last week and I can only hope that the reality of what our young men and women are facing right now will in some way mellow the hawks in this country and give them pause to seek out the trueth in what this country is doing.
Saterday I herd that two marines were killed. I spent the day trying to learn the National Anthem on my whistle. It took most of the day to get it right. 3 octive song. Gen D. Yes I am an old ex-marine jungle fighter.
And you all know how against this war I am. Its funny but every march and every rally I have attended in the last 6 months I always end up standing next to another Vietnam vet. But of course we know what it is like to fight a war in whitch the enemy is not in uniform and that a child can throw a grinade as well as a man and so on. We also know what it is like to be dis avoud by the government that ordered us into battle. We have learned in the last 30 years how our government manipulated the facts and just what the priorities were. So we have been left to justify our actions in that war without the moral backing of the government. Fine.
Now another conflict in whitch we as a nation are in violation of international law, are willing to brake down the work of countless years of diplomacy around the world, comprimise our founding fathers ideals and for what. Ego? Whos the toughest kid on the block?
Peace
Tom
In regards to the subject of this thread I can only say that my heart hangs heavy with grief for my comrads in arms. They are my brothers and sisters and they are once again in harms way under dubious cercumstanses. I have been in lala land since this outrage began last week and I can only hope that the reality of what our young men and women are facing right now will in some way mellow the hawks in this country and give them pause to seek out the trueth in what this country is doing.
Saterday I herd that two marines were killed. I spent the day trying to learn the National Anthem on my whistle. It took most of the day to get it right. 3 octive song. Gen D. Yes I am an old ex-marine jungle fighter.
And you all know how against this war I am. Its funny but every march and every rally I have attended in the last 6 months I always end up standing next to another Vietnam vet. But of course we know what it is like to fight a war in whitch the enemy is not in uniform and that a child can throw a grinade as well as a man and so on. We also know what it is like to be dis avoud by the government that ordered us into battle. We have learned in the last 30 years how our government manipulated the facts and just what the priorities were. So we have been left to justify our actions in that war without the moral backing of the government. Fine.
Now another conflict in whitch we as a nation are in violation of international law, are willing to brake down the work of countless years of diplomacy around the world, comprimise our founding fathers ideals and for what. Ego? Whos the toughest kid on the block?
Peace
Tom
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jim_mc
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- Location: Surprise, AZ
Tube Dude, heaping insults and spewing hatred toward those who disagree with you is no way to build the Pax Americana.
Besides, man, late night talk show hosts? And wahsed up radio talk show hosts? If you can't be original, at least find better source material.
And if you're going to post such bold and inflammatory material, post under your original identity, not your psuedonym. It makes you look cowardly.
Besides, man, late night talk show hosts? And wahsed up radio talk show hosts? If you can't be original, at least find better source material.
And if you're going to post such bold and inflammatory material, post under your original identity, not your psuedonym. It makes you look cowardly.
Say it loud: B flat and be proud!
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Nanohedron
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Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
Gee. Now I know that I can make French toast simply by berating the ingredients. And to think I had to needlessly go through all the mess and cleanup, before. :roll:
As long as this sort of thing stays on this thread alone, I will be content. Please try. TubeDude, you have proven nothing to me but a taste for media-flavored chauvinism.
Oh, and this is probably going to be my only post here.
As long as this sort of thing stays on this thread alone, I will be content. Please try. TubeDude, you have proven nothing to me but a taste for media-flavored chauvinism.
Oh, and this is probably going to be my only post here.
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Lorenzo
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Ode to War
Seems it has been done the same,
So many times before,
The weather sends another storm,
While humans are at war.
A terrorist smites a lofty tower,
Once stood in celestial pride,
And leaves the landscape naked,
A blizzard tries to hide.
A soldier strikes the bulls eye,
Leaves the earth with an open gash,
A sandstorm blows wherever he goes,
To cover up his trash.
The airplanes scrape the aging Earth,
The buildings scrape the skies,
The spacemen scrape the universe,
In search of Paradise.
There’s nukes and kooks, and anti-nukes,
With brains as bright as Hell,
And stockpiles full of dimwits,
That hide behind a shell.
The blind still lead the blinded,
The dead still bury the dead,
The blackout needs a whiteout,
somewhere inside the head.
The sun stands for knowledge,
The sky must be college,
The earth is a classroom,
The teacher’s the wind,
The Babylon brook,
It’s just another book,
And I’m just a student
Drinking it in. -Lorenzo
Seems it has been done the same,
So many times before,
The weather sends another storm,
While humans are at war.
A terrorist smites a lofty tower,
Once stood in celestial pride,
And leaves the landscape naked,
A blizzard tries to hide.
A soldier strikes the bulls eye,
Leaves the earth with an open gash,
A sandstorm blows wherever he goes,
To cover up his trash.
The airplanes scrape the aging Earth,
The buildings scrape the skies,
The spacemen scrape the universe,
In search of Paradise.
There’s nukes and kooks, and anti-nukes,
With brains as bright as Hell,
And stockpiles full of dimwits,
That hide behind a shell.
The blind still lead the blinded,
The dead still bury the dead,
The blackout needs a whiteout,
somewhere inside the head.
The sun stands for knowledge,
The sky must be college,
The earth is a classroom,
The teacher’s the wind,
The Babylon brook,
It’s just another book,
And I’m just a student
Drinking it in. -Lorenzo
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Nanohedron
- Moderatorer
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Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
Thanks Tubedude, I needed that!!!!!TubeDude wrote:
"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure."
---Jacques Chirac, President of France
"As far as France is concerned, you're right."
---Rush Limbaugh,
...
"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it."
---John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona
In my own humble opinion, the French are irrelevant...much as the U.N...
I will miss drinking "Evian" though...-
Andreas
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[quote="TubeDude]...
"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure."
---Jacques Chirac, President of France...
[/quote]
Once again I must ask what this sentiment does beside the other ones.
Of course war always beens failure. In one way or the other. It doesn't even say that war always is wrong, so it cannot even be used to show how "cowardly" the french are. I just don't get it.
"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure."
---Jacques Chirac, President of France...
[/quote]
Once again I must ask what this sentiment does beside the other ones.
Of course war always beens failure. In one way or the other. It doesn't even say that war always is wrong, so it cannot even be used to show how "cowardly" the french are. I just don't get it.