Keyless Grip Observances

[Clover]

I've perused the threads.

Some use all piper, some use all fingertips, some use fingertips upper hand and piper lower hand. Some use a combination of both in a single hand.

Is there a solid agreement on a "classical" grip for keyless Irish flute?

If not I've got no beef. I'll pursue what it most comfortable to me. But if there is some "standard" grip for keyless I'd like to give it a study. Is there?

[MarkP]

Not really, each to their own, but it's worth reading...

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Rocksto_on_ ... flute.html

[jim stone]

Single best thing, if you are at the beginning, is to take a lesson from a teacher. Can save you years of
trouble.

[Nanohedron]

The only problem with Jim's reply is that it doesn't address the issue; and furthermore, every teacher will not have the same grip, nor even necessarily understand the implications of their own, to say nothing of others. Just as there are grips unsuitable to the individual, there are people called "teachers" who are inadequate to the task. Beyond that, I have no disagreement at all with Jim's suggestion.

[JohnB]

I'd use a grip that can be used on both keyed and keyless so you don't stitch yourself up if you go on to a keyed flute. I vaguely remember a mate (a good player) who played pipers grip on his keyless flute had a few problems playing my keyed flute - he said that the keys and mounts were getting in the way.

[Feadoggie]

Some use all piper, some use all fingertips, some use fingertips upper hand and piper lower hand. Some use a combination of both in a single hand.

That alone should provide the answer you are looking for.

Is there a solid agreement on a "classical" grip for keyless Irish flute?

Of course not. Otherwise you would not have observed what you describe above.

I'll pursue what it most comfortable to me.

That's the ticket! We all have different hands, different flutes, different musical and musculoskeletal backgrounds. Use what works best for you. This is a path of discovery. It is called "playing". So don't take things too seriously. And avoid the prescriptive alleyways. It will all come to you the more you play.

Take a look at Cathal Mconnell, Mike McGoldrick or Larry Nugent playing. What's that tell you? How does Seamus Egan manage to switch top hands between playing flute and whistles? They all use what works for them. There are some wild and wonderful players out there that use unconventional means to play as they do.

Feadoggie

[rama]

as feadoggie said, there seems to be no solid agreement on this underhanded matter. so you will have to try out the different ways of holding the flute and see what works and what doesn't work for you, read other people's opinion about what works for them, and keep in mind there are advantages/disadvantages to each. explore the possibilities (kinestically speaking). the only warning i would have comes from my experience. be aware that using the finger 'tip' (as opposed to the finger 'pad') particularly on the 5th tonehole (the biggest one) on larger holed flutes might pose a problem in covering it, if your finger is not fat enough. i eventually switched to a flatter finger (more extension of DIP) so that my finger pad rests comfortably over that hole. now even the largest holed flutes pose no problem.
(by 'tip' i mean the very tippy top 'point' of the finger, the part to use to poke someone in the eye, and by 'pad' i mean the part of your finger the policewoman tells you to roll on the inkpad to get your fingerprint, at least thats what happens to loren on friday nights before he calls me for bail money and then i have to poke him in the eye.)

[jim stone]

The only problem with Jim's reply is that it doesn't address the issue; and furthermore, every teacher will not have the same grip, nor even necessarily understand the implications of their own, to say nothing of others. Just as there are grips unsuitable to the individual, there are people called "teachers" who are inadequate to the task. Beyond that, I have no disagreement at all with Jim's suggestion.

OK. go to a good teacher of Irish flute, one who is adequate to the task.
There is indeed a more or less classical grip--it isn't always used nor should it necessarily be--
and the good teacher will know it even if she doesn't use it. I mean a professional who performs.
The more or less classical grip is a good place to start, even if one moves from it. I say this from
experience, cause I did go to a good teacher (Grey Larsen) initially, disregarded his instructions
immediately, and it took me years and some injury to learn how to hold the flute (the way I was originally
taught).

Another option is to go to a workshop in flute at a Festival, for instance the Tional upcoming in St. Louis.

Another option is to PM me and tell me where you are. I may be able to recommend someone good.
Of course there is no entirely risk free way of going about this, but a recommended teacher is probably
the best way to begin. Certainly it is widely advised that one take a couple of lessons at
the beginning, partly so as to learn how to hold the flute.

All else failing, Grey's instructional book has helpful info about more or less classical grip for wooden flute,
though he dismisses piper's grip for bad reasons. But it's good to know the stuff he teaches.

[Feadoggie]

by 'tip' i mean the very tippy top 'point' of the finger, the part to use to poke someone in the eye, and by 'pad' i mean the part of your finger the policewoman tells you to roll on the inkpad to get your fingerprint, at least thats what happens to loren on friday nights before he calls me for bail money and then i have to poke him in the eye.

Oh my! That's a classic. Thanks for the chuckle.

[Clover]

Okay, I get it. Don't get technique obsessed. Get on with the music.

[Terry McGee]

Hmmm, I'd say "Get it right, then get on with the music." I can't see any reason not to go with what the people who invented and played this style of flute for hundreds of years concluded. Certainly avoid bad habits like left hand playing and pipers grip, which both make subsequent use of keying much harder.

There are several pages on my website dealing with how to hold the flute, and how to get the desired tone, one of which Jim referenced above. To make it easier to find and compare them, I've added links to all of them at the bottom of each. So, maybe start at the earliest:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Gunn%20on%20Tone.htm

Terry

[Clover]

Hmmm, I'd say "Get it right, then get on with the music." I can't see any reason not to go with what the people who invented and played this style of flute for hundreds of years concluded. Certainly avoid bad habits like left hand playing and pipers grip, which both make subsequent use of keying much harder.

There are several pages on my website dealing with how to hold the flute, and how to get the desired tone, one of which Jim referenced above. To make it easier to find and compare them, I've added links to all of them at the bottom of each. So, maybe start at the earliest:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Gunn%20on%20Tone.htm

Terry

Thanks Terry. I'd like to get it right. I'm going to your website.

[onewheeldave]

I'd use a grip that can be used on both keyed and keyless so you don't stitch yourself up if you go on to a keyed flute. I vaguely remember a mate (a good player) who played pipers grip on his keyless flute had a few problems playing my keyed flute - he said that the keys and mounts were getting in the way.

Equally though, a player learning non-pipers grip will have some difficulties switching to pipers if it becomes necessary.

I used to use non-pipers grip, and, it worked very well for me, but after several years and a bit of aging, I found myself getting numbness in my right hand after playing.

Switching to pipers grip on the right hand cured the problem. I believe that this isn't uncommon and have seen others posting similar stories.

[LorenzoFlute]

I found myself getting numbness in my right hand after playing.

I think this only happens if you're applying pressure in the wrong places. Subtle changes should do the trick.

[JohnB]

Equally though, a player learning non-pipers grip will have some difficulties switching to pipers if it becomes necessary.

I used to use non-pipers grip, and, it worked very well for me, but after several years and a bit of aging, I found myself getting numbness in my right hand after playing.

Switching to pipers grip on the right hand cured the problem. I believe that this isn't uncommon and have seen others posting similar stories.

Sure if you need to change your grip for comfort/age/whatever reasons and a pipers grip is more comfortable then fair enough but if i was starting out I'd go for a grip that could be used on both keyed and keyless flutes - I agree with Terry.