Drones stuck in mainstock

[Tilori]

I recently noticed my drone reeds need adjustment, because I can not get the drones in tune over both octaves anymore. So I tried to remove them only to notice, that they are all stuck. They won't move a cm, even with twisting and pulling.
My suspicion is, that the mainstock has shrunk more than the drones and this makes it quite an urgent matter. If the weather gets warmer again I believe that the drones might expand faster than the big mainstock and they might crack. I thought about putting the pipes in the cold, but I would always have to do that with the reeds still inside and I don't want to break them.
So any help is really appreciated.

[Cathy Wilde]

Argh. I hate that! I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that my drones and mainstock get stuck every spring if I don't take off the extra thread I added for the winter in time. That's life with boxwood ...

Putting the pipes in a drier place seems to help, but not always.

In the event the drier environment doesn't work, I can say from personal experience that using force is a TERRIBLE idea. It's better to suffer without the drones until they shrink. (And I imagine there's more risk of damage if you stress them by pulling on them or twisting them. Better to let the drones and the stock move by their own slow degrees, I would think.)

After a few years of this, I stopped using hemp for seasonal joint-binding and switched to very fine thread. This seems to give me a little more latitude.

I re-bound the mainstock entirely one year with less hemp and more fine thread and that's been working pretty well, too. Previously the mainstock either got stuck or launched the drones into someone's lap depending on the time of year.

Anyway, I'm sure someone will have better advice, but dry air, patience/faith, and rebinding with finer thread when they finally do come apart are the best routes I've found so far.

Good luck, and sorry

[An Draighean]

I stopped using hemp for seasonal joint-binding and switched to very fine thread.

Me too, though I use the Mrs. cotton quilt thread, which seems heavier than some thread but far lighter than hemp.

[PJ]

... I thought about putting the pipes in the cold, but I would always have to do that with the reeds still inside and I don't want to break them ...

It's something you have to decide yourself - risk damaging the reeds or risk damaging the stock/drones.

This is what some people have suggested: strip the set of everything you can remove - regs, drone slides, and, if you can manage it, take the stock out of the stockcup. Put what remains (stock and in-board sections of the drones) in the fridge for an hour and then try to remove the drones from the stock. My understanding is that the shrinkage is due more to the dryness of the air in the fridge than to the cold.

If it works, don't just reassemble the pipes and start playing. Let the wood gradually adjust to the ambiant temperature and humidity before you start piping again. And remember to remove some binding from the drone tenons before you stick them back into the mainstock.

[Cathy Wilde]

I agree with PJ, and yeah, duh, the most important step is to take a turn or two or three of that stuff off when you do get the drone ends out!

FWIW, I asked about the mainstock-in-the-fridge/freezer idea at a workshop last spring (just coming off everything being stuck) and the general consensus of a roomful of pipers, including the fellow who made my set, was "OMG." Whether anyone had actual experience with this I didn't hear, but seeing a roomful of strapping men shrink in horror was impressive ...

Anyway, in my experience things come loose eventually! I should add that in the sticky season I try to build a fire in the woodstove every night, which seems to dry the air out pretty well over a few days. So if you have a friend who heats with wood ... ?

[Bill Reeder]

I did the mainstock in the freezer thing a few years ago. It worked just fine. Only took about 20 minutes or so, if I recall rightly. Otherwise, I just wait until February if I want to move the mainstock.

[Ted]

The yellow "hemp" (actually linen) that comes from GHB suppliers is a too thick. I sell a finer weight real hemp that is better for UP, SSP and NSP wraps. Cotton thread is not a good substitute IMHO. PM me if anyone wants some. I just sent some rolls of it to the NPU store and will be available there soon. It is always good to check the amount of wrap now and again and add or take off some as needed.

I have used the freezer a number of times to make stuck joints easier to take apart. No problems and they come apart rather easily after 20 minutes in the freezer.

[Tilori]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I put the pipes in the fridge yesterday. The typical German freezer is just not big enough (and I removed all parts that could be removed). I tried to remove the drones from time to time but they won't move. In the end the drones were in the fridge for about 24 hours but it did not work out. If it would just be the mainstock, I would not worry too much. But I needed constantly more hemp for the mainstock to fit in the stock cup. I see this as evidence that it has shrunk quite a lot during the Winter. Maybe this is an effect after the production since I don't have the drones for too long.
That's why I really want to remove the drones right now, because the last week was as cold as it could normally get. The main reasons are, that the drone reeds need some adjustment and that I fear that the drones might crack in the Spring. Is this a possibility?
Maybe I need to contact the maker about this.

[Ted]

The labor intensive way of doing this is to remove the plugs at the end of the drone bores at the back end of the mainstock. Put a small dowel or cut down chopstick into the front of the first drone section and gently unseat and remove the reeds. Bend a small hook on the end a small diameter stiff wire. File the hook so it fits between the drone end and the stock. Use this to hook onto some hemp wrap on the drone tenon and pull some hemp out where you can get ahold of it and unwrap the drone. This may can take a few tries to get it unwrapped. Replace the plugs and re-wrap the drones so they can be removed. This can be a tedious process, but if you are determined, it will do the trick. I've done this on several occasions, before I started using the freezer.

[uillmann]

I don't want to pee on anybody else's ideas, here, but I think you are going about it all backwards. The mainstock is maybe, (likely,) made of a softer fruitwood, or maple or something, which has shrunk more than the harder wood of the small diameter drone tenons. And the smaller diameter of the tenons will mean that they are going to shrink relatively less than the mainstock's mortices, especially when the tenons are made of a denser wood. My brother once had a Quinn set of blackwood drones, with a maple mainstock, and the mainstock eventually shrank so much that the drones would not fit into the holes at all. In fact, the holes were about 3/32's too small, and would have had to have been extensively reamed out if the drone tenons were ever going to fit, (with or without thread.) I suggest that the whole kit and kaboodle would be better off if the wrapping under the mainstock ferrules can be coaxed out from under the large piece of brass, and the entire lump left in a plastic bag along with a sponge saturated with water. This should make the mainstock swell more than the drone tenons, and ease the tightness on the tenons. Further drying by putting in the fridge will likely make things tighter. These softwood mainstocks will suffer during the summer months from an overly tight fitting 2.5" ferrule, and many times will compress the wood fibers so that the whole arrangement will become much smaller, perhaps by more than 1/8 inch, which was the case in the Quinn set mentioned. This compression of the mainstock can - and will - have negative effects on the drone mortices within. Mainstocks of softer woods should have ferules made from less substantial wall thickness than the heavy .060" stuff commonly found on many older tubing-built sets, thereby allowing for some movement of the overall diameter during the wetter months. If not, adjustment of the large diameter joint should be practiced diligently and judiciously. This is a serious matter, for too little wrapping of the lower end of the mainstock will invite cracks along the length of the mortices, and too much wrapping during the warmer months will, in time, cause the precise problem at hand.

[Tilori]

After nearly destroying the bass drone, I decided to send the drones to the maker. By the way, the mainstock is made of a denser wood than the drones, according to a wood database in the internet. The drones are boxwood.

[Cathy Wilde]

Good move. Extreme measures are why my bass drone is now held together with string and JB Weld. Like yours, my drones are boxwood (my mainstock is, too, though from a different log I imagine), and my baritone drone end has warped or bowed a bit ... perhaps bowing or warping is another factor in your situation.

Sorry for the pain, and good call. It gets better eventually ...

[Tilori]

Thanks for your sympathy. What happened to you sounds much worse though. I think I have just to get used to testing the slides from time to time.

I also think contacting the maker was the best idea, as I am not the one responsible anymore when things get destroyed . And I am not the one who could make the replacement parts either...

[Cathy Wilde]

Benedict Kohler conducted a pipe-maintenance workshop at the Northeast Tionol a few years ago and "seasonal" care of your pipes was number-one on his list. IIRC, he said that more problems come from leaks and stuck joints than just about anything else, and that we should plan to spend a couple of hours in the fall and the spring either adding binding to the joints or removing it (adding for the winter, removing in the spring). And even then, as I found, you can still get caught unawares -- so it doesn't hurt to take a minute and inspect everything pretty much every time you play.

[bensdad]

So easy to forget.
I was playing at my session a couple of weeks ago, and wondering why the set was taking so much air.
Then the bass drone fell on the floor ; it was so loose that just the friction between it and my leg coaxed it out of the socket.
Luckily my lightning-fast reflexes....