an old question,the fingering “D” in the second register

[cai-shao-yang]

before，i use the fingering oxxxxx in D，the second register。
But I gradually found，the “Cut” in the D，sound strange。

but，when i use the fingering xxxxxx，the cut Sounds normal，but seems harder to control than before i did。


so，i want ask， how you play the second register D？
From an objective point of view, which is more suitable to whistle playing? What is the reason? Thank you.

[megapop]

I had a similar question in the flute forum over there lately.

It's just as you said: XXX XXX is slightly harder to control, but sounds better when cut (in my opinion, at least). When you cut the 2nd D played like OXX XXX, you actually don't get a higher note, as you would expect from a cut-note, but a lower note. Something like a C natural usually, depending on the whistle and the cut. That does serve the purpose of separating two Ds just as well, but I personally don't like it a lot. Maybe it's due to the octave switch, which makes it sound less fluent to my ears.

However, on the whistle I always played the 2nd D like XXX XXX from the very beginning, so this has never been an issue. When I took up the flute, I found OXX XXX to be more comfortable to blow at the beginning; but now I just got used to play it in both ways. When I want to cut the 2nd D, I always finger it XXX XXX; but apart from that, I really can't say when I use which variant. It's just a matter of the context, I guess. Practise both fingerings, and you won't even notice which one you'll actually be using.

And here is the thread I mentioned at the beginning; I found the advices given there by the flute-fellows really helpful!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90406

[German Whistler]

... you actually don't get a higher note, as you would expect from a cut-note, but a lower note. Something like a C natural usually, depending on the whistle and the cut....

question: isnt it always said that the cut is supposed to be that fast that the other tone isnt heard??
i never wanted to belive this because i do hear the other note, even if for a very short time, but i did read many times that it isnt

anyway, i just did try it on the 3 whistles which i have one my desk right now, and to me, both versions sound nice (my ears still have to develop anyway)
BUT learning a fast tune at the moment with many notes in the second octave i thought about if i should finger the higher "D" like xxx xxx for making it more comfortable to me

[megapop]

Yes, a cut is rhythmic ornament, not a melodic one. More a very short "click" than really a note (as part of the melody). But your brain realizes much more information than your limited conscious mind does, and when you hear it, I think you kind of know whether you have heard a cut or a strike. Of course, the faster you get, the less will it matter though.

[Nanohedron]

question: isnt it always said that the cut is supposed to be that fast that the other tone isnt heard??
i never wanted to belive this because i do hear the other note, even if for a very short time

We would have to hear examples of your best cuts to answer that. It may be that you actually do consciously register the note of a properly executed cut, but can you say you can actually hear this way on expert playing? That would be unusual for the average listener. In my experience, the usual answer is instead that one's own cuts simply need improvement.

Subliminally, of course ornament pitch registers in the brain. However, the pitch of a cut or tap should be so fleeting that it seems toneless to the ear. The operative word here is "seems". Remember that a proper cut or tap is a rhythmic device, not a melodic one.

Oops: Crosspost w/ megapop.

[German Whistler]

i still use cuts very rarely, my speed may be slow, i dont know
and if i use them i like to use just the note above and not like i did read several times for example g for cutting an d and a for cutting an e and so on

but, do you hear a difference or not?
does it matter if i finger xxx xxx or oxx xxx in this case?

thats what i dont understand

[megapop]

Everyone has their own way of cutting notes. Quite common is to cut D, E, F# and G with L3, and A and B with L1, I believe; I myself don't have a real system. Cutting with different fingers certainly makes a slight difference, but that doesn't really matter (disregarding cranns). Much more important is whether the pitch of the ornament note is higher or lower (i.e. whether to cut or to tap), especially when performing a roll. As you won't do a roll on the D very often though (albeit it's possible), it's mainly a matter of taste there.

[AvienMael]

Any good whistle should let you cut the second D using oxx xxx, but you have to execute it very quickly or it sounds like a car wreck.

Play it this way, and practice, practice, practice... xxx xox - oxx xxx

[Mr.Gumby]

As you won't do a roll on the D very often though (albeit it's possible),

[cai-shao-yang]

Thank you all, you gave me great inspiration，After repeated test，i chioce the oxxxxx，Sound more clear good control！

[megapop]

As you won't do a roll on the D very often though (albeit it's possible),

What do you mean? The possibility ore the frequency of use?

[Mr.Gumby]

I can think of a few ways to ornament d' by way of ersatz or pseudo roll. None could be called an roll proper. So I am curious what your solution is.

[Peter Duggan]

so，i want ask， how you play the second register D？
From an objective point of view, which is more suitable to whistle playing? What is the reason? Thank you.

Have to say I'd advocate cultivating both fingerings and employing them according to context. So there are places where I like the crisp, register-crossing effect of cutting or cranning OXXXXX and places where I prefer the more homogeneous figures you get with XXXXXX. But I'd also tend to restrict the cutting fingers to R1 and R2 for the latter where I'm more likely to use L3 as well for the vented D.

[FascinatedWanderer]

I can think of a few ways to ornament d' by way of ersatz or pseudo roll. None could be called an roll proper. So I am curious what your solution is.

Could do the Micho thingy. It's sort of a roll. ish.

[ecohawk]

Could do the Micho thingy. It's sort of a roll. ish.

Could one elaborate?

Thanks in advance,
ecohawk