Agility

[Peter Duggan]

Rama hit the nail on the head here: One must know what one seeks to accomplish if one is to find an effective way to get there.

Excellent post (yes, all of it), Loren!

[Denny]

2nd that!

[jim stone]

are you looking for finger exercises, dexterity skill exercises?

Yes, that's it.

... how could you exercise you fingers better than by playing tunes?

To answer your question, there are books of exercises consisting of series of notes in different combinations
and in different keys. One takes a particular series of notes and plays it methodically, typically four times,
then starts the series again but on the second note, then on the third. This is alleged to help
to develop dexterity (e.g. the ability to play difficult passages more easily and quickly) better than
playing tunes does. It tends to concentrate on difficult transitions.
I worked with a book of these some time ago, it was for fifers, but
it's no longer with me, and the book said there are more complex/difficult series/exercises
available, which I could probably use now. I'll go to a music store. Thanks again to all.

[an seanduine]

I hesitate to jump in here, because I am essentially in agreement with Loren. Jim, you are thinking of didactic literature, such as Klose 25 Daily exercises for Saxophone or even the venerable School for Velocity by Carl Czerny (although entirely piano-centric). Although I have classical training, and shed bitter tears of sweat over some of these exercises and etudes early on, I don't think they will actually help you in furthering performance of ITM. Their thrust and intellectual underpinning are focused on a classical understanding of performance.
'Course, you could prove me wrong, or any of us But that would be only demonstrable in showing improvement through these sorts of studies. Perhaps a more fruitful methodology would be to survey the rather vast expanse of Session tunes and abstract out various repeating 'figures'' that are sometimes monotonously repeated from reel to reel and jig to jig. Most of us have unconsciously compiled a 'library' of these 'figures' already and because we have command of these, we can concentrate more fully on the 'bits' and 'twiddles' of each tune that make it distinctive and individual. . .
Just my twa' farthings

[jim stone]

The book I mentioned earlier in the thread, I now have recalled,
is Bill Hart: Better, Stronger, Faster: exercises for fife.

I did find it helpful, as I recall, and, as one can see, it isn't intended for classical music.
I was looking for more of this sort of thing.

In earlier discussions about this book, some people indeed affirmed the idea that ITM tunes themselves
would serve the purposes of these exercises. That may be so; but maybe not so much or as well.
I just want to do some more exercises like these and see.

Let a thousand flowers bloom.

[Gordon]

The Hart fife book is, I suppose, as helpful as any exercise will be, running your finger through a variety of maneuvers that may or may not actually appear in ITM (or fifing, for that matter). You will get better, stronger, and faster, if you run those exercises regularly. Of course, the reason - after scale practice - most trained musicians run through etudes, rather than finger exercises, is that they are inherently musical - practicing, say, Quantz etudes while studying Baroque flute serves the same sort of function as a scale exercise, but they are actually pleasant to listen to and play. My experience with Better, Stronger, Faster was that I was bored listless, and it took time away from the hours I might have spent playing music.

As said earlier, running through jigs, reels, hornpipes, etc., with its variety of differing rhythm, will do wonders for finger dexterity. And I mean really run them; the same four (or more times) in a row you mentioned for finger drills, at an even pace (dare I suggest a metronome?), without ornaments (unless that's what you're working on) - just methodical practice on a variety tunes. Deliberately avoid tunes that are essentially the same as the last one - find tunes that start differently - on D, on F#, on E, etc. Find ones that have tricky turns, or octave jumps. Only when you've become completely fluid do you increase the speed.

I know you've probably done this, Jim - you're not a newbie - but since finger dexterity seems a concern of yours, it never hurts to backtrack a bit and return to rudiments. And, unlike finger dexterity exercises and more like etudes, it sounds like music. Besides, you'll probably add a few new tunes you didn't know to your repetoire along the way.

[david_h]

...there is no such thing as general dexterity, be it for the fingers or anything else. We learn motor skills patterns.

So how about the exercises used by dance teachers, yoga teachers, physical therapists etc that are designed to safely take joints and associated muscles through their range of movements, restoring or extending those movements, and for each movement getting the muscles that have opposing actions working with no more opposing force that is needed for control ( 'relaxed' in our terms) ?

For fingers would these not improve 'general dexterity' ? Exercise need not be about specific skills, it can be generic. Those teachers mentioned have big fat anatomy and physiology textbooks. I had a look at one to help me understand what muscles made my fingers go up and down, reach for keys etc.

[megapop]

...........

[Loren]

david_h,

I do have an answer for you, however as we are having what may very well be one of the last relatively warm days here in New England for the next 6 months, I am going to be spending my time outdoors enjoying it I'll get back to this thread in a day or two though and respond.

Cheers.

[jim stone]

The Hart fife book is, I suppose, as helpful as any exercise will be, running your finger through a variety of maneuvers that may or may not actually appear in ITM (or fifing, for that matter). You will get better, stronger, and faster, if you run those exercises regularly. Of course, the reason - after scale practice - most trained musicians run through etudes, rather than finger exercises, is that they are inherently musical - practicing, say, Quantz etudes while studying Baroque flute serves the same sort of function as a scale exercise, but they are actually pleasant to listen to and play. My experience with Better, Stronger, Faster was that I was bored listless, and it took time away from the hours I might have spent playing music.

As said earlier, running through jigs, reels, hornpipes, etc., with its variety of differing rhythm, will do wonders for finger dexterity. And I mean really run them; the same four (or more times) in a row you mentioned for finger drills, at an even pace (dare I suggest a metronome?), without ornaments (unless that's what you're working on) - just methodical practice on a variety tunes. Deliberately avoid tunes that are essentially the same as the last one - find tunes that start differently - on D, on F#, on E, etc. Find ones that have tricky turns, or octave jumps. Only when you've become completely fluid do you increase the speed.

I know you've probably done this, Jim - you're not a newbie - but since finger dexterity seems a concern of yours, it never hurts to backtrack a bit and return to rudiments. And, unlike finger dexterity exercises and more like etudes, it sounds like music. Besides, you'll probably add a few new tunes you didn't know to your repetoire along the way.

Thanks

[Julia Delaney]

What I do for dexterity--

I isolate the tricky parts of some tunes: the parts that I have a hard time with and that I slow down on. I play these parts over and over again, and deadly slow. These are tunes that in themselves contain exercises in dexterity: some tunes by Charley Lennon (A Smile From Sile and The Flying Wheelchair, the Kane sisters' (Mike Cooney's Fancy, The Newtown Bridge, and Lakes of Killarney), some of the technical hornpipes (The Smell of the Bog, the Birmingham, The Hawk, Savannah), almost anything that involves the use of keys (The Contradiction, Splendid Isolation, ) and some reels that are just plain challenging to me, for one reason or other, such as Lord Gordon, Colonel Fraser, The Wise Maid.

Extracting just the tricky parts from these tunes -- and then working them into the tunes when played "up to tempo" -- and using these as dexterity exercises, would go a long way towards addressing your question.

I also think you should choose one from the pantheon of stellar fluters and listen to that person endlessly, slowing down and trying slavishly to imitate that one person as much as possible. While I listen to all fluters I return time after time to Catherine McEvoy and Harry Bradley. I also return time after time to Brad Hurley's collection of interviews with great players and makers.

And Jim, ultimately it isn't about finger dexterity. It's about loving the tunes you play and playing to satisfy yourself. People who don't play half as well (or as fast) as you do find joy and solace in their own playing. I think you should look past technique and into the soul of the music without comparing yourself to anybody else.

[jim stone]

What I do for dexterity--

I isolate the tricky parts of some tunes: the parts that I have a hard time with and that I slow down on. I play these parts over and over again, and deadly slow. These are tunes that in themselves contain exercises in dexterity: some tunes by Charley Lennon (A Smile From Sile and The Flying Wheelchair, the Kane sisters' (Mike Cooney's Fancy, The Newtown Bridge, and Lakes of Killarney), some of the technical hornpipes (The Smell of the Bog, the Birmingham, The Hawk, Savannah), almost anything that involves the use of keys (The Contradiction, Splendid Isolation, ) and some reels that are just plain challenging to me, for one reason or other, such as Lord Gordon, Colonel Fraser, The Wise Maid.

Extracting just the tricky parts from these tunes -- and then working them into the tunes when played "up to tempo" -- and using these as dexterity exercises, would go a long way towards addressing your question.

I also think you should choose one from the pantheon of stellar fluters and listen to that person endlessly, slowing down and trying slavishly to imitate that one person as much as possible. While I listen to all fluters I return time after time to Catherine McEvoy and Harry Bradley. I also return time after time to Brad Hurley's collection of interviews with great players and makers.

And Jim, ultimately it isn't about finger dexterity. It's about loving the tunes you play and playing to satisfy yourself. People who don't play half as well (or as fast) as you do find joy and solace in their own playing. I think you should look past technique and into the soul of the music without comparing yourself to anybody else.

Most helpful, as always.

[Denny]

I also return time after time to Brad Hurley's collection of interviews with great players and makers.

what some might think belong in the "Things to read & listen to before ya post here" sticky.

[Gordon]

I also return time after time to Brad Hurley's collection of interviews with great players and makers.

what some might think belong in the "Things to read & listen to before ya post here" sticky.

Or, we could stop posting altogether, and declare the forum an archive.

[Denny]

would there be a lottery to determine who gets the last word?