Posture, bent left wrist, and numbness

[cunparis]

I've started having some numbness / very mild pain on my left hand and I wonder if it's because I'm not holding my flute correctly. I've noticed that when I play, my left wrist is bent upwards. So I started paying attention to other players to see how they hold their wrist.

Grey Larson:




Blayne Chastain:



Kevin Crawford:



I'm a computer software developer and spend most of my day typing on the keyboard. I've learned that keeping the wrist straight is very important for avoiding carpal tunnel syndrome. Yet it seems all the flute players have their wrists bent. So I'm wondering if this is a problem?

In my case I'm not sure if my pain is related to the flute or not, I kind of think it's not. it doesn't hurt when I play flute but more when I've been using the computer a lot. so it may be totally unrelated. But I am curious about this because it seems potentially dangerous to play with a bent wrist for long periods of time. It seems the piper's grip keeps the wrist more straight. I use piper's grip when playing low whistle but for some reason it just feels wrong on the flute and I prefer the 'standard' flute grip.

One other thing I noticed is if I play with the flute horizontal, my wrist has to bend more. if I play with the flute angled down, then the wrist is less bent.

If anyone is curious the slight dull pain / numbness I have is just above the wrist on the palm side.

[drewr]

The pictures you included show the most common (and most taught) way of holding a flute, but it's not the way I hold it. I could never understand how anyone can maintain dexterity in their left fingers with their wrist bent upwards like that. The flute is not heavy and you don't need your entire hand/wrist/arm below it to hold it up.

Try raising your left wrist up until it's on the far side of the flute instead of underneath. Your upper fingers (above the second knuckle) will be parallel to the floor instead of perpendicular. Move your thumb so it's below your index finger.

I've always played like this. I've had computer-related carpal tunnel problems in the past (before I took up flute), but I've never had a second of left-hand pain using this method.

If you've been playing for a while it might be difficult (if not impossible) to change techniques, but I find absolutely no stress on my left hand or wrist playing like this. Good luck.

[jim stone]

The left wrist is somewhat bent with classical grip, typically, and it's good to adjust the grip to minimize the bend.
Even a little can help.

There is nothing the matter with experimenting with piper's grip and seeing if it makes a difference.

Also it makes sense to review your entire hand use, including computer. You may simply be using your left
hand too much, over all, when you include the flute too. Is it possible to try voice activated software
on the computer, if only for some of what you do?

If symptoms persist and it were me, I would see an orthopaedic hand surgeon (not for surgery, but for diagnosis)
and/or a hand therapist.

Finally running the hand/wrists under hot water before playing and icing with cold packs or ice afterwards
is standard practice for lots of musicians. Can't hurt (not too hot or cold for too long, of course).
Might try that.

[Fiff & Chipple]

Although the traditionalists may grumble, try having a look at Mike McGoldrick and Stephen Doherty. Both fantastic players that have more of a pipers grip - thus straight rist.

There are negatives though, as you will struggle with some keys.

It works for me though.

[Feadoggie]

Although the traditionalists may grumble, try having a look at Mike McGoldrick and Stephen Doherty. Both fantastic players that have more of a pipers grip - thus straight rist.

Remember that when you look at McGoldrick's grip that he plays goofy-handed, right hand up top, flute out to the left. Laurence Nugent has a similar grip too.

I played flutes with the classical grip for many years. It's what was taught. I started playing cane flutes in a few lower keys sometime in the 1970's and found the grip impossible to maintain without a lot of discomfort. I started playing with flat fingers quite by trial and error to manage those flutes. After some years I realized that there was no downside to using the piper style grip on any keyless flute. So that's the way I play.

It is so intuitive that if you have any discomfort like that you described to give it a try. It may take a little while to get comfortable but it really eases the tension in the hands, wrists and fingers. And if you can rotate the right and left hand sections it can ease the arms and shoulders too. It's worth a try.

Feadoggie

[Casey Burns]

It might be best to consult with an orthopedist about this, or an orthopedic therapist.

In the meantime, I would recommending keeping the arm in-line with the back of the hand and avoiding any bent wrist as possible. You might be able to fashion some sort of cloth sprint to train your hand to this, and there may even be such items out there to keep the wrist straight with the arm. Also, its important to relax the arm and hand. A death grip can only make inflammation worse.

[cunparis]

Remember that when you look at McGoldrick's grip that he plays goofy-handed, right hand up top, flute out to the left. Laurence Nugent has a similar grip too.

I've tried holding it like that but I just can't get it to balance properly like I did with the classic grip.

I did some family photos today so I had my wife take one of me with my flute. This is pretty much how I hold it.

[benhall.1]

I hold the flute in 'classic' hold. But the only time I get any trouble is when my hand and wrist stiffen up. Nothing to do with the angle - it's when I allow myself to get too tensed up. Then I get some trouble. But those times are getting fewer.

[Feadoggie]

I've tried holding it like that but I just can't get it to balance properly like I did with the classic grip.

Well, that's the trick. It's a different grip and you do secure the flute differently than you would on a classical grip. I hold the flute in a manner similar to the photo of Mr. Nugent. The left hand thumb is extended to the side of the flute and actually holds the flute against my lip/chin quite nicely. On flutes with a tuning slide it sits just like Mr. Nugent's. On my Copley short-foot delrin flute (similar to your flute?) my left thumb actually spans the tuning gap between the head and left hand section of the flute. My right thumb sits under the flute and holds it up. The little fingers can be used for additional leverage if you need it.

I'm not a fan of "one-size-fits-all" grips. We all have different hands. So you have to find what works for you. And if a grip is uncomfortable, find a new way to hold the flute. It all works out in the end.

Remeber, relax! It's called "playing" and not "torturing".

Your right hand looks relaxed. Try matching that with your left as best you can. Go for that Kevin Crawford smile too.

Feadoggie

[Jayhawk]

I went through a period with pretty annoying numbness that developed in my left hand, specifically the bottom two fingers. It was clearly ulnar nerve related, and I bought a flute with an offset LH3 hole which helped, and have turned the middle section on both my flutes away from my body, which also really helps by keeping the left wrist straighter.

Nerve inflammation can take much longer than you expect to improve, but avoiding the things that lead to it can solve the problem. Also avoiding a death grip on the flute can help.

I think the Larry Nugent hold requires either a freakishly long thumb or a differently placed G# key than I have...just tried it, can see some advantage to it, but with my G# key, owww...it's really painful.

Eric

[shoner]

Look at your bottom hand elbow compared to the rest of the pics of folks holding the flute. It throws off your shoulders and everything follows. Overall the top hand looks too rigid and kinda tense.

[jemtheflute]

I realise your photo may be posed, not your actual playing position, but you'll find (try it, watching either out of the corner of your eye or in a mirror) that if you turn your head more to the left and bring your arms more round in front of your body the wrist angle (and other postural things) will change. It seems to me that with both hands you are far too much "holding the flute up". Certainly your R thumb is far too much forward/under the flute and you seem to be pinching between thumb and fingers there. What you do with either hand will significantly affect the other, though that may not seem obvious at first, and the R thumb is IMO absolutely critical and amazingly influential on all else!

Have a look at how Jean-Michel Veillon holds his flute for a perfect example of a good and very secure hold (watch some video clips of him if you can to see how he can move around quite briskly but maintaining absolute security of the flute-embouchure relationship!)



Whatever method you ultimately adopt, getting away from holding the flute to supporting it by a version of the 3 pressure point technique should significantly reduce stress. Have a read of this to see if it can help you work through analysing and adjusting your hold.

[Peter Duggan]

I've learned that keeping the wrist straight is very important for avoiding carpal tunnel syndrome. Yet it seems all the flute players have their wrists bent. So I'm wondering if this is a problem?

Well (FWIW), I was taught on Boehm flute, have been playing flutes on and off with the classic grip for c.35 years and never knowingly suffered from carpal tunnel syndrome. But I have had to make changes (for my hand!) to minimise tensions that might have been leading that way...

As some here are aware, I'm missing a finger on my left hand and stuck with a very short L3 (my pinkie!) causing such bad tension problems on flutes with inline, open holes that I just can't play them any more (unless they're tiny!). So I'm now playing flutes with a significant offset to the L3 hole, and that works for me (raising my pinkie to an inline position creates instant tension and dropping it back down again releases it). While that Nugent/McGoldrick-style hold (straight fingers and wrist, left-pointing thumb) might work for some, it also spells instant tension for me... but that's OK because I'd far rather keep a Boehm-compatible hold (for occasional Boehm playing!) and have also chosen to have C nat thumb holes on my recent flutes. (NB while these have been moved up slightly from Dave Copley's standard position to sit where the other factors/changes land my thumb, the marginally increased wrist bend I get this way is also more comfortable for me!) So the bottom line (which I've been double-checking after reading this thread) is that there's really only one hand position that works for me (probably more like Blayne Chastain's than any of the others posted above) and it really doesn't matter whether or not it looks comfortable to anyone else. You'll know when you find yours (or fail to!) because you'll feel the difference, although you'll hopefully not be restricted to custom-built flutes to maintain playability!

[david_h]

Have a look at how Jean-Michel Veillon holds his flute for a perfect example of ...

That was the photo I had pinned up (mirror imaged) on the mirror that I stood in front of when I was getting my hold sorted out. Someone here probably suggested it.

[jemtheflute]

Have a look at how Jean-Michel Veillon holds his flute for a perfect example of ...

That was the photo I had pinned up (mirror imaged) on the mirror that I stood in front of when I was getting my hold sorted out. Someone here probably suggested it.

Tee hee. Just noticed my profile pic has significant similarities! Mind, that boxwood flute is very light.....