a ornament named “shake”？

[cai-shao-yang]

i have seen a ornament，with shaking fingers quickly。
Some have not mentioned in the tutorial books。
is this ornament skill named “shake”？

and how use this skill？（each note Corresponding fingering）

I searched for BBS, but didn't get too much useful information, my English not very comprehensive。

thanks everyone

[Angel Shadowsong]

Shaking your fingers?

The only thing I have in mind is Finger Vibrato. Its not an ornament, but an effect of giving fast oscillations or fluctuations on sustained note.

[cai-shao-yang]

Shaking your fingers?

The only thing I have in mind is Finger Vibrato. Its not an ornament, but an effect of giving fast oscillations or fluctuations on sustained note.

yes。yes。 this is！

plz tell me，how to use them。thanks angel

[highwood]

shake is an alternative term for a trill

not sure this is what you are referring to - a trill is kind of a controlled shake of the fingers.

Trills are not used much (if at all) in ITM, but very common in baroque and many other styles of music.

[cai-shao-yang]

shake is an alternative term for a trill

not sure this is what you are referring to - a trill is kind of a controlled shake of the fingers.

Trills are not used much (if at all) in ITM, but very common in baroque and many other styles of music.

the whistler Brian Finnegan（from the FLOOK band） often use this skill，trill，use fingers。

[MTGuru]

the whistler Brian Finnegan（from the FLOOK band） often use this skill，trill，use fingers。

No Cai, that's not right. Brian Finnegan almost never plays trills. You must be thinking of a different ornament. He does use finger vibrato.

[kokopelli]

Well, if finger vibrato is what you're thinking of, it's pretty simple. What it does is make very rapid but very small changes in the note you're playing. It gives it a sort of wavering sound. You can only use it on notes where you have a few fingers off the whistle. All you do is very quickly put down and pick up one (or more) fingers that are below the note you're playing. But don't use the top open hole or it will become a trill. That's kind of rough wording. Maybe someone else can come along and refine it a bit.

[cai-shao-yang]

the whistler Brian Finnegan（from the FLOOK band） often use this skill，trill，use fingers。

No Cai, that's not right. Brian Finnegan almost never plays trills. You must be thinking of a different ornament. He does use finger vibrato.

i am sorry，i think it is vibrato！!
in "chinese english translation",trill = vibrato, now i know, in fact ,in english,trill is not the "vibrato"

so my meaning is vibrato,thanks all.

[cai-shao-yang]

Well, if finger vibrato is what you're thinking of, it's pretty simple. What it does is make very rapid but very small changes in the note you're playing. It gives it a sort of wavering sound. You can only use it on notes where you have a few fingers off the whistle. All you do is very quickly put down and pick up one (or more) fingers that are below the note you're playing. But don't use the top open hole or it will become a trill. That's kind of rough wording. Maybe someone else can come along and refine it a bit.

thanks koko, Have suitable for each note best fingering recommend?

i seen sometime,the A vib use B2\B1 ,sometimes someone use B1,I want to know a standard fingering

[Peter Duggan]

I want to know a standard fingering

There isn't one. It depends on whistle, player and desired effect. You can use one, two or three fingers. You can close holes or just shade them. And you can even use the first open hole (the only way to do it on an E!) if you're just shading it.

[JackCampin]

"Shake" is a standard term for "trill" in 18th century books.

Are you doing early music?

[cai-shao-yang]

"Shake" is a standard term for "trill" in 18th century books.

Are you doing early music?

no……Some un-professional translation software made this mistake……

Chinese meaning so changeable, translated into English is a bit difficult, largely because of my poor English ：（


so，i konw peter‘s mean，if i use the lower hole，with shade（half-hole），To do the vibrato，In fact it is feasible？

so，i can practice like this：

“E” vib——————— D-half hole（B3-halfhole）
F# vib——————— E-half hole （B2-halfhole）
G vib————————F-half hole （B1-halfhole）
A vib———————— G -half hole （T3-half hole）
……
……
like this……
am i right？
If this method is feasible, and I will practice in this methods。it seems so simple—— just half-hole，shade。

[Peter Duggan]

While you can, as I've suggested, shade the first open hole, it wouldn't normally be my first choice and I'd usually be leaving one or more open holes untouched. Might also be worth pointing out that some things that work in the first octave don't in the second, where too heavy a finger vibrato (or poor choice of holes) can cause your note to break up instead of dip down! And this, again, can vary from whistle to whistle.

Edit (noting your proposed 'T3-half hole' for 'A vib'）: dunno whether anyone else ever uses their top hand for vibrato, but don't think I do [second edit: talking rubbish here!] and doubt it's 'standard' practice (though this could just be because you get comparatively few opportunities to do so)!

[cai-shao-yang]

While you can, as I've suggested, shade the first open hole, it wouldn't normally be my first choice and I'd usually be leaving one or more open holes untouched. Might also be worth pointing out that some things that work in the first octave don't in the second, where too heavy a finger vibrato (or poor choice of holes) can cause your note to break up instead of dip down! And this, again, can vary from whistle to whistle.

Edit (noting your proposed 'T3-half hole' for 'A vib'）: dunno whether anyone else ever uses their top hand for vibrato, but don't think I do and doubt it's 'standard' practice (though this could just be because you get comparatively few opportunities to do so)!

you means the top hand Should not participate in Vibrato？ so， how to apply C#‘s vibrato？（i usually press B3 to perform C#）

[Peter Duggan]

you means the top hand Should not participate in Vibrato？

Think 'should not' might be too strong, but just saying I didn't think I use it. Though perhaps I might on certain whistles because it's sometimes hard to say what you're doing when you stop to think about it and the Susato I had to hand when I typed that behaves quite differently from the Feadog I've just picked up...

so， how to apply C#‘s vibrato？（i usually press B3 to perform C#）

For the first C# (if holding down B3), full-hole vibrato with B1 and B2 works well on the Susato but I might just use T2 on the Feadog where that sounds closer to a trill on the Susato. For top C# (should you ever want it), don't leave B3 down on the Susato but do experiment with single bottom hand finger shading, whereas T3 seems more effective on the Feadog. And, since that's just two random whistles I've picked up and what works on one can be disastrous on the other, perhaps the point about there being no 'standard' fingerings for all here is clear?

PS 17-year-old one-piece Susato and even older Feadog (it could even be as specific as that!).