Stinky brass-any favorite solutions?

[Ian Parfitt]

Hi all

Only have one brass whistle (Sindt A). I wash it well with washing up liquid and then polish with a cheap toothpaste. Keeps the whistle smelling good for at least a month.


Ian

[Mr Ed]

I've had good results with cheap toothpaste as well. Although, I usually prefer brass to look a little funky. Can't be of any help with a more long lasting fix for the stink, unless it's to switch to CPVC.

[greenspiderweb]

Thanks for the great suggestions, and I believe that the toothpaste is a good idea for cleaning the brass. But there has to be something that makes it last, and creates a barrier that protects the finish from oxidation.

Turtle Wax seems one of the better suggestions, along with the McGuire's, so thank you for those suggestions too.

I still need to see if the beeswax hair dressing is still available, as it seemed a good final coating for keeping the oxidation to a minimum.

[SpeedBeagle]

I suppose I'm having the opposite problem. What I can only presume is the protective coating is peeling off my Walton's Brass C. Any suggestions on speeding up the process? I never really liked the feel of the coating anyway.

[crookedtune]

Acetone (nail-polish remover) is what you're after.

[O'Mulriain]

EDIT: Regarding everything I said below, I'm pretty sure I'm wrong and that Waltons actually do have some weird coating on them, so I'd second that acetone idea. You can read what I have to say for future reference though.

What I said earlier:

"It's a common misconception so you're totally excused for this one, SpeedBeagle, but that's not actually a protective coating that you're wearing off. The brass looks different around where you place your fingers, correct? Well I'll have you know that this happens on all brass whistles, my Feadog, my Burke whistle, as well as Generations, and yes, Waltons. It is in fact two different levels of tarnish on your whistle body. Because your fingers are constantly rubbing the area around the holes (and where your thumbs go, and where you rest your pinkies) these places tend to build up patina slower than the rest of the whistle, which just get fingerprints and the like. The only way to get rid of this that I can think of is to polish your whistle with brass polish, thereby making it uniformly shiny. I never do this though because it just tarnishes back to the way it was in a few days.
I don't see it as a problem anyways, just shows you're given your whistle good use. "

But now I have a question too, why would Waltons put a coating on their whistles in the first place? Aside from the obvious answer which would be "to prevent corrosion". I mean, none of the other trad brass whistles have coatings like that, right?

[MTGuru]

none of the other trad brass whistles have coatings like that, right?

Nope.

Brass Generations are coated. As are Waltons brass. As were Feadóg Mark I (and maybe II) brass. And Freeman Mellow Dogs (I'm not sure about now). And many other whistles, such as most Clarkes and many Feadógs, are painted or powder coated.

The reason is/was the obvious one: to resist corrosion and wear and maybe stinky whistle syndrome. That it doesn't work very well and ends up looking grody is a different matter ...

And remember that 30 years ago or so, the only available whistles were Generation and Clarke, period, then Soodlum's (Waltons) and Feadóg. And they were all coated one way or the other (including nickel plating), so it was the industry standard.

Only with the proliferation of whistles in recent years has uncoated brass become accepted or preferred. Or let's say re-accepted, since uncoated brass was also common prior to the Second World War.

[squidgirl]

If you like the smell of beeswax, I just use plain old pure beeswax on my brass knitting needles to keep them smooth and un-smelly (Addi Lace needles: expensive little brass guys with very nice sharp points for knitting lace. They rock).

I rub them with a beeswax candle until they're all sticky, then buff vigorously with a cotton rag, vigorously enough to melt and spread out the wax (you can feel it get quite hot from friction). They're done when the wax makes the metal feel quite smooth under the cloth, and the it no longer looks cloudy from wax, but has a warm glow instead. This treatment generally lasts until I finish the project, which for a lace shawl can take some months.

OTOH, you would end up getting quite a bit of exercise doing this to a large low D whistle.

Now I've gotta go try this on my super-quiet little all-brass Hoover D. I've been practicing on it at night, but thinking it doesn't smell or taste so great.

Isn't there some way to clean brass with ketchup? My little Hoover guy needs a cleaning before I buff him up.

If the wax doesn't want to spread nicely, I figure I'll just melt a chunk of beeswax along with some nice variety of groovy oil, as one does when making a herbal salve. The more oil you add to the melted wax, the more spreadable your salve (er, whistle polish) would be (but also less durable).

ETA: Ketchup works nicely to brighten up the brass without entirely obliterating the badges of honor around the finger holes. Sriracha flaming rooster sauce works even better... (can't resist the call of science ) The scent of ketchup persists a bit (chili sauce less so), but is removable with soap and water.

The wax did not need melting and dilution with oil, it smudged right on and rubbed off again with a normal dose of elbow grease. The result is not super shiny, but warm and glowing, and it smells of beeswax instead of brass.

I like it

E(again)TA:

[O'Mulriain]

Thanks for the information, MTGuru. I know some people look at the difference in color around the holes and get upset because they "fear the brass coating is wearing off", which of course is not true since the whistles in question are usually solid brass. Hence I instantly jumped to a very wrong conclusion on SpeedBeagle's problem. So sorry to him for assuming he didn't know what he was talking about.

[Zabava77]

I have Burke brass whistle, and it does have patina now. Recently I cleaned the mouthpiece with the mild solution of a dish soap (just as suggested in the whistle manual). The patina, however, does not bother me. Do I have to clean it? Would it eventually affect the sound quality, or can I leave it alone and just clean the mouthpiece when needed?

[O'Mulriain]

I have Burke brass whistle, and it does have patina now. Recently I cleaned the mouthpiece with the mild solution of a dish soap (just as suggested in the whistle manual). The patina, however, does not bother me. Do I have to clean it? Would it eventually affect the sound quality, or can I leave it alone and just clean the mouthpiece when needed?

I'd say if you dropped your whistle into the ocean and picked it back out again in a month or two (or even a few days later) the resulting corrosion would have a negative effect on the sound. However a mild patina doesn't hurt, and is to some considered a good thing (it causes the whistle body to be less slippery, and some people like the look of it). For my Burke whistle the owner's manual (which I can only assume says the same things as yours) instructs you to gently swab the bore out with an alcohol-soaked snippet of fabric. I would say this is all you need to do to keep it under control. I did take brass polish to my Burke whistle once, and although it made it look nice and shiny for a week the patina returns rather quickly.
Pretty much if you just do the things he tells you on the whistle care paper he gives you it'll be good to go. I also tend to rub it with the alcohol cloth on the outside as well to keep the visible patina under control and remove fingerprints, but this is not entirely necessary and really hasn't a thing to do with the sound.

Also I'd like to say I'm not an expert on any of this and don't claim to be, however I do know what the owner's manual says and I'm pretty sure if there was any vital information about the detrimental effects of patina on sound quality Burke would have made note of it. Just trying to be helpful. I know I read the paper about five times before I cleaned it for the first time, it would be sad if a 220+ dollar instrument got ruined by a mistake on my part.

[MTGuru]

The patina, however, does not bother me. Do I have to clean it? Would it eventually affect the sound quality, or can I leave it alone and just clean the mouthpiece when needed?

No, no effect whatsoever. Strictly a matter of aesthetic and tactile preference.

Personally, I prefer my brass shiny. I think a nice warm brown patina can look nice, too. But maybe because of my finger chemistry, or maybe the very dry climate here, it just doesn't happen. My brass ends up looking splotchy like some kind of cancerous crud. An occasional light once-over with a polishing cloth, and even more occasional treatment with polish keeps them looking (and, more imporant to me, feeling) playworthy.

[greenspiderweb]

If you like the smell of beeswax, I just use plain old pure beeswax on my brass knitting needles to keep them smooth and un-smelly (Addi Lace needles: expensive little brass guys with very nice sharp points for knitting lace. They rock).

I rub them with a beeswax candle until they're all sticky, then buff vigorously with a cotton rag, vigorously enough to melt and spread out the wax (you can feel it get quite hot from friction). They're done when the wax makes the metal feel quite smooth under the cloth, and the it no longer looks cloudy from wax, but has a warm glow instead. This treatment generally lasts until I finish the project, which for a lace shawl can take some months.

OTOH, you would end up getting quite a bit of exercise doing this to a large low D whistle.

Now I've gotta go try this on my super-quiet little all-brass Hoover D. I've been practicing on it at night, but thinking it doesn't smell or taste so great.

Isn't there some way to clean brass with ketchup? My little Hoover guy needs a cleaning before I buff him up.

If the wax doesn't want to spread nicely, I figure I'll just melt a chunk of beeswax along with some nice variety of groovy oil, as one does when making a herbal salve. The more oil you add to the melted wax, the more spreadable your salve (er, whistle polish) would be (but also less durable).

ETA: Ketchup works nicely to brighten up the brass without entirely obliterating the badges of honor around the finger holes. Sriracha flaming rooster sauce works even better... (can't resist the call of science ) The scent of ketchup persists a bit (chili sauce less so), but is removable with soap and water.

The wax did not need melting and dilution with oil, it smudged right on and rubbed off again with a normal dose of elbow grease. The result is not super shiny, but warm and glowing, and it smells of beeswax instead of brass.

I like it

Thanks squidgirl for all your work on the brass, and nice to know your experience with the brass knitting needles!

I do like the smell of beeswax very much, and I did try rubbing a hard cake of it on the outside of my Low D after polishing, though I didn't buff it much. I don't really know if I applied enough, either, but probably not. It didn't last all that long, but I will try it again in light of your findings.

Thanks for the suggestion of adding an oil or other ingredients to make it easier to apply. The hair product I used to have and use, (on my whistles only! ) had a good amount of petroleum jelly in it.

Think I need some beeswax to melt down though-all I have is a disc for sewing that is used to coat thread. I want to save that for flute threads.

Your Hoover looks great, and a nice shot of it sitting on the keyboard!

PS Nice to see you back on Chiff and whistling again-congrats on finding your way back to music!

[greenspiderweb]

I have Burke brass whistle, and it does have patina now. Recently I cleaned the mouthpiece with the mild solution of a dish soap (just as suggested in the whistle manual). The patina, however, does not bother me. Do I have to clean it? Would it eventually affect the sound quality, or can I leave it alone and just clean the mouthpiece when needed?

I'd say if you dropped your whistle into the ocean and picked it back out again in a month or two (or even a few days later) the resulting corrosion would have a negative effect on the sound. However a mild patina doesn't hurt, and is to some considered a good thing (it causes the whistle body to be less slippery, and some people like the look of it). For my Burke whistle the owner's manual (which I can only assume says the same things as yours) instructs you to gently swab the bore out with an alcohol-soaked snippet of fabric. I would say this is all you need to do to keep it under control. I did take brass polish to my Burke whistle once, and although it made it look nice and shiny for a week the patina returns rather quickly.
Pretty much if you just do the things he tells you on the whistle care paper he gives you it'll be good to go. I also tend to rub it with the alcohol cloth on the outside as well to keep the visible patina under control and remove fingerprints, but this is not entirely necessary and really hasn't a thing to do with the sound.

Also I'd like to say I'm not an expert on any of this and don't claim to be, however I do know what the owner's manual says and I'm pretty sure if there was any vital information about the detrimental effects of patina on sound quality Burke would have made note of it. Just trying to be helpful. I know I read the paper about five times before I cleaned it for the first time, it would be sad if a 220+ dollar instrument got ruined by a mistake on my part.

And thanks to you O'Mulriain, for the suggestion of how Mike Burke suggests to clean the bore of a brass whistle. I've never heard about the alcohol swab before (though Guinness has been suggested a few times), but will give it a go and see what it does for it. It's also good to get a maker's input on this-you would think they would know what works and doesn't for their brass whistles.

Would be nice to hear from other makers of brass whistles as well, if they have any favorite polishes and preservers.

Though I imagine whistlers are more in tune with the onslaught of oxidation in long term use, whereas makers are usually a once and done issue, that can be different from constant use and play.

[Zabava77]

I have Burke brass whistle, and it does have patina now. Recently I cleaned the mouthpiece with the mild solution of a dish soap (just as suggested in the whistle manual). The patina, however, does not bother me. Do I have to clean it? Would it eventually affect the sound quality, or can I leave it alone and just clean the mouthpiece when needed?

I'd say if you dropped your whistle into the ocean and picked it back out again in a month or two (or even a few days later) the resulting corrosion would have a negative effect on the sound. However a mild patina doesn't hurt, and is to some considered a good thing (it causes the whistle body to be less slippery, and some people like the look of it). For my Burke whistle the owner's manual (which I can only assume says the same things as yours) instructs you to gently swab the bore out with an alcohol-soaked snippet of fabric. I would say this is all you need to do to keep it under control. I did take brass polish to my Burke whistle once, and although it made it look nice and shiny for a week the patina returns rather quickly.
Pretty much if you just do the things he tells you on the whistle care paper he gives you it'll be good to go. I also tend to rub it with the alcohol cloth on the outside as well to keep the visible patina under control and remove fingerprints, but this is not entirely necessary and really hasn't a thing to do with the sound.

Also I'd like to say I'm not an expert on any of this and don't claim to be, however I do know what the owner's manual says and I'm pretty sure if there was any vital information about the detrimental effects of patina on sound quality Burke would have made note of it. Just trying to be helpful. I know I read the paper about five times before I cleaned it for the first time, it would be sad if a 220+ dollar instrument got ruined by a mistake on my part.

Thanks for bringing to my attention the part about cleaning lower bore with alcohol, I missed that part. However, for the windway he recommends soap solution.
I wonder if silicon cloth used to treat outer surfaces of fire arms would be acceptable for protecting outer surfaces of a brass whistle... The silicon cloth I am considering is advertised as environmentally safe and biodegradable.