Best instrument to learn on that isn't actually the pipes?

[Uilleann915]

Totally addicted to acquiring instruments lately....mandolins, harmonicas, whistles, etc. Overly dividing myself is a whole seperate issue. But I still pine for the one practice set I have owned, 5 years ago now. I WILL get into piping, I will!

Anyway, my newest acquisition is a low D whistle. I need to set a goal of really being a competent whistler, and hopefully my reward to myself will be to spring for the pipes when I can. Is this low whistle with its piper's fingering my best option for the closest thing, better than a high D? I'm well aware that playing a whistle is not "wrestling the octopus" of bag/bellows/chanter, but it must be better than no preparation at all. Thanks for any and all advice.

[uillmann]

The best instrument to learn on is the pipes. Get the best set you can't afford. Cash in your 401K, sell all your whistles, your saxophone, your car, your house, your dog, and your children, borrow some money form your parents, and take out a mortgage on the rest. Then pay a reedmaker for an improvement in intonation, and a pipemaker for some much-needed upkeep. Then learn how to make reeds and live in poverty and frustration for the rest of your life. Result - occasional bliss, (unless you have a good ear for harmony.)

[An Draighean]

... Anyway, my newest acquisition is a low D whistle. I need to set a goal of really being a competent whistler, and hopefully my reward to myself will be to spring for the pipes when I can. Is this low whistle with its piper's fingering my best option for the closest thing, better than a high D? I'm well aware that playing a whistle is not "wrestling the octopus" of bag/bellows/chanter, but it must be better than no preparation at all. Thanks for any and all advice.

Take this for what it's worth, from a long-time whistle player who's only taken up the pipes only 3-4 months ago:

Any previous exposure to ITM is helpful and will save you some time (not having to learn about timing and etc. from scratch). Ditto for both reading music and learning by ear.

Whistles (and flutes) use some of the same kinds of ornamentation as the uilleann pipe chanter; it is possible to practice cuts, rolls, crans, slurring, and vibrato on the whistle, but even if the mechanics are similar the feel is quite different on the chanter versus the whistle. Some kinds of pipe ornamentation (for example top-hand triplets and popping) are unique to the pipe chanter and can only be learned there.

Even on a high D whistle, you can begin to learn/practice closed fingering. On my Generation whistles, I can get every note except C# in both octaves with closed pipe fingering. All notes may not be in perfect pitch or intonation, but with the aforementioned exception of C# everything else will be close enough to be recognizable and playable for the purpose. Again, though you can get used to the idea of closed fingering on a high whistle, the actual feel on the chanter is quite different because of the much greater volume of air moving through the chanter and reed for one thing. I don't own a low D whistle so I don't have an opinion there, but my low G whistle works just the same as I have described for the high D.

Having said all that, you are still best-served by getting at least a practice set of pipes ASAP. The things I mentioned are better than nothing if you have no pipes at all, but no substitute for the real thing. The other thing I have found is that for me personally, the uilleann pipes demand a dedication unlike any other instrument I have ever learned and played (and I play a fair number). I have stopped playing all my other instruments including my whistles while I learn the basics of piping. Part of this is practice time (devoting 100% of my available time to only the pipes) and part of it is throwing myself whole-heartedly into a new and sometimes strange venture without any distractions or errant memories. Maybe this is because I'm older now and my mind is less flexible; YMMV.

[ImNotIrish]

... Anyway, my newest acquisition is a low D whistle. I need to set a goal of really being a competent whistler, and hopefully my reward to myself will be to spring for the pipes when I can. Is this low whistle with its piper's fingering my best option for the closest thing, better than a high D? I'm well aware that playing a whistle is not "wrestling the octopus" of bag/bellows/chanter, but it must be better than no preparation at all. Thanks for any and all advice.

Take this for what it's worth, from a long-time whistle player who's only taken up the pipes only 3-4 months ago:

Any previous exposure to ITM is helpful and will save you some time (not having to learn about timing and etc. from scratch). Ditto for both reading music and learning by ear.

Whistles (and flutes) use some of the same kinds of ornamentation as the uilleann pipe chanter; it is possible to practice cuts, rolls, crans, slurring, and vibrato on the whistle, but even if the mechanics are similar the feel is quite different on the chanter versus the whistle. Some kinds of pipe ornamentation (for example top-hand triplets and popping) are unique to the pipe chanter and can only be learned there.






Even on a high D whistle, you can begin to learn/practice closed fingering. On my Generation whistles, I can get every note except C# in both octaves with closed pipe fingering. All notes may not be in perfect pitch or intonation, but with the aforementioned exception of C# everything else will be close enough to be recognizable and playable for the purpose. Again, though you can get used to the idea of closed fingering on a high whistle, the actual feel on the chanter is quite different because of the much greater volume of air moving through the chanter and reed for one thing. I don't own a low D whistle so I don't have an opinion there, but my low G whistle works just the same as I have described for the high D.

Having said all that, you are still best-served by getting at least a practice set of pipes ASAP. The things I mentioned are better than nothing if you have no pipes at all, but no substitute for the real thing. The other thing I have found is that for me personally, the uilleann pipes demand a dedication unlike any other instrument I have ever learned and played (and I play a fair number). I have stopped playing all my other instruments including my whistles while I learn the basics of piping. Part of this is practice time (devoting 100% of my available time to only the pipes) and part of it is throwing myself whole-heartedly into a new and sometimes strange venture without any distractions or errant memories. Maybe this is because I'm older now and my mind is less flexible; YMMV.

Wow, just about verbatim to what I was going to add. I have been at the pipes for thirteen months now, and though I play several other instruments, I have temporarily set them aside while getting a grasp on the pipes. Yes, a practice set at the minimum. Otherwise, how will you ever learn to deal with the frustration that comes with playing the pipes? It is not to be avoided!

Arbo
Arbo

[Bill Reeder]

Hah! Twelve years ago, I set all my other instruments aside just to focus on the pipes; I still haven't got back to them.

[An Draighean]

I have been at the pipes for thirteen months now, and though I play several other instruments, I have temporarily set them aside while getting a grasp on the pipes.

Hah! Twelve years ago, I set all my other instruments aside just to focus on the pipes; I still haven't got back to them.

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! As a matter of fact, I just told my pipe teacher last week that I'm not sure if I ever really want to play any of the other instruments seriously again, since I'm sure that I could spend the rest of my life still learning and growing on the pipes. I'm totally entranced by them.

[KevinNot10]

I think that the whistle is an excellent instrument to learn on before the pipes. In fact, I think that many people have such difficulty with the pipes because they didn't spend enough time with other instruments before moving to the pipes. There is an awful lot to learn in order to play Irish music well on any instrument, and by learning things like the proper lilt for the tunes on an instrument with very simple mechanics, it becomes easier to transition to the pipes. When you do start on the pipes, you can devote all of your focus to the new mechanics, rather than having to learn how to play the music as well. That's been my experience anyway, playing flute and whistle for nearly ten years before moving on to the pipes.

Kevin

[uillmann]

I think that the whistle is an excellent instrument to learn on before the pipes. In fact, I think that many people have such difficulty with the pipes because they didn't spend enough time with other instruments before moving to the pipes. There is an awful lot to learn in order to play Irish music well on any instrument, and by learning things like the proper lilt for the tunes on an instrument with very simple mechanics, it becomes easier to transition to the pipes. When you do start on the pipes, you can devote all of your focus to the new mechanics, rather than having to learn how to play the music as well. That's been my experience anyway, playing flute and whistle for nearly ten years before moving on to the pipes.

Kevin

I have a vague recollection of something I read years ago, (maybe a quote from Willie Clancy?) that the whistler or flautist may be at a disadvantage, and that they have as much to unlearn as to learn when delving into the pipes.

[Ceann Cromtha]

The best instrument to learn on is the pipes. Get the best set you can't afford. Cash in your 401K, sell all your whistles, your saxophone, your car, your house, your dog, and your children, borrow some money form your parents, and take out a mortgage on the rest. Then pay a reedmaker for an improvement in intonation, and a pipemaker for some much-needed upkeep. Then learn how to make reeds and live in poverty and frustration for the rest of your life. Result - occasional bliss, (unless you have a good ear for harmony.)

Marcus J, you so CRAZY!!! Seriously, I think this is possibly the greatest post of all time. I'm going to print it out and put it on my wall.

[bradhurley]

Starting on the whistle and "graduating" to the pipes is a well-worn path and it does have many benefits. I think there's less to "unlearn" when going from whistle to pipes than from going from flute to pipes, and as others have pointed out the whistle is a great instrument for learning the basic concepts of ornamentation, phrasing, etc. Yes the techniques are different on the whistle, but once you understand the concepts of rolls, cuts, triplets, and can play tunes competently on the whistle it's a lot easier to pick up those technique and tunes on the pipes. The problem with the flute is that many flute players start playing the pipes as if they were a flute, which doesn't work very well. I see that less often with the whistle, and in any event the pipes and whistle are more similar in many respects (both share a limited dynamic range, for example).

I don't think there's any advantage to a low whistle vs. a standard one if you're trying to prepare for the pipes. I suppose the finger spread is more similar but I think you need to get used to the finger spread on a real chanter. The holes on the chanter are also smaller than those on a low D whistle.

[PJ]

I have a vague recollection of something I read years ago, (maybe a quote from Willie Clancy?) that the whistler or flautist may be at a disadvantage, and that they have as much to unlearn as to learn when delving into the pipes.

Clancy started on the whistle, then learned the flute, before coming to the pipes in his early 20s. So if it was him, he was probably speaking from personal experience.

I don't think learning whistle or flute would make learning the pipes any easier. The benefit is probably in learning how traditional music should be played (phrasing, ornamentation, tempo, etc.). In that sense, a fiddle or an accordeon would be just as good.

[Nanohedron]

I have a vague recollection of something I read years ago, (maybe a quote from Willie Clancy?) that the whistler or flautist may be at a disadvantage, and that they have as much to unlearn as to learn when delving into the pipes.

Clancy started on the whistle, then learned the flute, before coming to the pipes in his early 20s. So if it was him, he was probably speaking from personal experience.

I don't think learning whistle or flute would make learning the pipes any easier. The benefit is probably in learning how traditional music should be played (phrasing, ornamentation, tempo, etc.). In that sense, a fiddle or an accordeon would be just as good.

I think that if any advantage comes in, it is simply in coming to the pipes with an already-developed set of general dexterity skills, such as they may be, on tubes with holes. But that's pretty much it, because I regard any similarities between flute and pipes as too superficial to bear comparison. So dexterity skills, especially if you already have developed an ability for general lightfingered sureness, CAN be a leg-up that way, although it's no guarantee. But it's essential for the whistler/fluter to accept that there's no crossover in HOW you do fingering or ornaments on pipes - IOW, no easy outs - if you're really committed to doing it right.

I'm not so sure about the "having to unlearn" idea as really telling the tale, but then it pretty much only took me the first sitting to see that the pipes really had nothing to do with the flute in the first place, so since I was just learning a truly different instrument altogether, for me, at least, there was nothing to unlearn. It was sort of like going from motorcycle to semi truck in the sense that the commonality of them both having ignition and wheels isn't worth mentioning. "Having to unlearn" does speak to the need to get rid of any recurring ingrained bad (IOW whistle/flute) habits, though.

[PJ]

Just thinking about it, I could name a bunch of pipers who play flute/whistle well, but I can only think of a few pipers who also play the fiddle well.

Seamus Ennis
Tommy Reck
Caoimhne O'R (although he's more a fiddler who plays the pipes well)

Did I hear Willie Clancy also play the fiddle?

[Calum]

My only point would be if you don't have the grit to learn the whistle, you certainly won't learn the pipes. So you might as well start with the cheap one.

[Cathy Wilde]

Looking for the "like button" on a whole lot of these (especially the "sell your family into slavery" one) ... ditto on the practice set as your best option, but double-ditto on the tinwhistle as an affordable and serviceable starting place. And IMO, a low D is a waste of 150-plus dollars of future pipe-money. Low Ds are nice and all, but they require a much bigger reach than any concert chanter, so there's really no need to set up more barriers for yourself. Just get a nice basic tinwhistle (one in the key of B or Bb is roughly analagous to a typical pipe chanter) and start there. While you're learning scales, etc., practice separating notes with cuts, taps, and "closing" all your fingers between notes; this should give you a leg up on chanter articulation. As said above, if you don't mind a few out-of-tune notes you can even use chanter fingerings on a goodly portion of the scale. If you want to play the tinwhistle out you just learn the other fingerings; it's easy enough.

P.S. To add to PJ's list ... Mick O'Brien is also a terrific flute player.