Semi-beginner Flutes

[MeMyselfandI]

Okay, so M&E is out.

[Aanvil]

How many times do we get this question?



Get a Martin Doyle keyless in black wood and put in an order with Patrick Olwell for a 6 key... I'm sure someone here has his number.

Doyles are here:

http://www.martindoyleflutes.com/

You'll be covered for life.

If you ever need more than that you'll be better than most players in the entire world.

If you run into any problems with your playing and you ask the question everyone at one time asks... "Is it me or the flute?" The answer will be, 99.9% of the time. "You!"

Get one, play the hell out of it and don't ever stop.

Enjoy!

[MeMyselfandI]

Are you kidding? You're assuming that everyone has as much money on hand as you do. (well, I don't know how much you do, but you get the point)

[Aanvil]

Are you kidding? You're assuming that everyone has as much money on hand as you do. (well, I don't know how much you do, but you get the point)

No. I'm not kidding. I'm dead serious actually.

Keyless Doyel in blackwood is 625 euro. If you are paying in dollars its probably getting less by the week given the current crisis. You don't need the slide as he provides enough tenon.

That's fekin cheap for a flute that you won't have to fight to play and that will grow with you for a very long time.

The wait list for one of Patrick Olwell's keyed fluted is what... 11 or more years now? If you can't save up enough coin in that amount of time then... Heck you can probably check seat cushions and busk that much in 11 years.

Why buy multiple flutes you'll grow out of when you could shoot for one or two you'll keep for life? If you are concerned with economy you'll save more money this way.

[psychodonald]

Me, myself and I: I think that Aanivl makes an excellent point which makes economic sense to me. In my earlier post, I listed some of the flutes which I have purchased, but each purchase was an effort on my part to acquire the best flute possible that would give me the sound that I wanted, for the best price. I've grown quite a bit and have learned a lot about my own limitations and likewise the limations of even the best of instruments. I finally found the instruments that worked for me, but the journey was an expensive one; hence, Aainvl's advice, I think is sound and could save you bucks in the long haul. In my experiece, I will say this, you get exactly what you pay for and I think that is especially true with the purchase of flutes. BTW, I hate the idea of 11 year waiting lists (it's a personal thing), even for an Olwell!!! In my opinion, I'll never out grow or move beyond the capabilities of my 6 keyed Burns flute, a winner that one is. Good Luck and enjoy it.

[Grahnwolf]

I understand that Aanvil was genuinely trying to help, but that sort of reply drives me a little crazy.

If you can't save up enough coin in that amount of time then... Heck you can probably check seat cushions and busk that much in 11 years.

Sometimes, paying thousands of dollars for flutes is just not an option. Ever. And that attitude of "you'll be able to save it up in 11 years" is only true if... well, if it's true. If you don't make a lot of money and there are other priorities in your life, you may genuinely NEVER be able to justify spending that much money on a flute. I'm not saying you couldn't eventually save the money. I'm saying that there may very well be other things in your life that come first. Spending $400 on a flute may already be a stretch and a luxury and I hate when people try to make you feel bad for that.

Why buy multiple flutes you'll grow out of when you could shoot for one or two you'll keep for life?

Some of us don't outgrow our flutes. I love the flute that I have. It's terrific. I will never ever outgrow it. I have neither the natural talent nor dedication to surpass its capabilities. Why would I spend the money on a more expensive instrument if I never plan to be good enough to tell the difference?

...

The original poster said what he was looking for and what his budget was. Can we just respect that and offer some advice within those given parameters?

[Aanvil]

Hey if you aren't really serious about your flute playing then there is little point in looking for a good instrument. Just drill some holes in a piece of manky old PVC and be done with it. I also won't get into some touchy feely purse fight over the merits of my advice. The question one asks often enough may not give them the answer they may need.

I will grant you this. It's certainly about priority. Cheers.

[Denny]

The original poster said what he was looking for and what his budget was. Can we just respect that and offer some advice within those given parameters?

Not for more than the first page. Sometimes there's a lot to be said for explaining the short comings in the original question.

[Jayhawk]

I still think the player is a much bigger deal than the stupid flute. Any of the makers you listed make fine flutes...I've played or owned most of them. This is a seriously worn out topic, so I don't chime in too often anymore (although this is about my second time in 2 months).

I've been playing an M&E flute for 5 or 6 years now, it's been played by two professionals and countless non-pro but good flute players...all say the same thing - it's a good flute, no need to buy anything else, just keep practicing (I have asked...we all want the flute to make us better but that's not the reality of it). Aesthetically, it is a step down from some of the other flutes listed, but to get an 8 keyed ebonite flute at such a good price, it's more than worth it and functionally is wonderful flute.

Get a flute you like (which can be based on aesthetics...that's totally valid), and simply practice, practice, practice. Buying the most expensive/top flute will NOT make you a better player...it's practice that does that.

Eric

[Gordon]

I still think the player is a much bigger deal than the stupid flute. Any of the makers you listed make fine flutes...I've played or owned most of them. This is a seriously worn out topic, so I don't chime in too often anymore (although this is about my second time in 2 months).

I've been playing an M&E flute for 5 or 6 years now, it's been played by two professionals and countless non-pro but good flute players...all say the same thing - it's a good flute, no need to buy anything else, just keep practicing (I have asked...we all want the flute to make us better but that's not the reality of it). Aesthetically, it is a step down from some of the other flutes listed, but to get an 8 keyed ebonite flute at such a good price, it's more than worth it and functionally is wonderful flute.

Get a flute you like (which can be based on aesthetics...that's totally valid), and simply practice, practice, practice. Buying the most expensive/top flute will NOT make you a better player...it's practice that does that.

Eric

This - exactly. Questioning someone's priorities, by way of suggesting they come up with money they don't have now and may not in the future... frankly, is just obnoxious. Had I ordered a fully keyed Olwell 11 years ago, I'd be sadly letting it go to someone else - I have far less to spend now than I did then, and my priorities have shifted from major committment to just playing well, and often.

That said, I bought a very good keyless flute over 11 years ago (a Hamilton) - six month wait I thought at the time was excrutiating, and money that seemed a lot at the time but, in retrospect, was a steal - the same flute now goes for well over double the cost. I often wondered if it was the best choice for me, but I didn't have the luxury to own too many other makes and styles over the years, so I stuck with it. And, yes, I probably should've added keys, back when I had the cash, but didn't. Still - long story short, I'm truly glad I bought the best possible flute I could back then, in no small part because there's no way I could replace it, quality-wise, now. And, after about fifteen years of playing, I'm finally truly happy with the way I'm playing this particular flute, in no small part because the flute and have finally come to agreeable terms.

This same story could easily apply to many other reasonably affordable flutes, some of which I've tried and others I haven't.
But, as Eric said, so much more comes from the player and their willingness to persevere. That's the only priority that matters.

[Loren]

I agree with the last two posts.

I would also highly recommend the Delrin Copley, particularly if you live in the U.S.: Great flute, great customer service, short wait, very good resale value, durable, low maintenance. Really, you could easily spend the rest of your playing life on one. Personally I would recommend getting the Elliptical embouchure cut as opposed the the one Dave uses as standard on the delrin flutes. Both embouchure cuts work well on his delrin flute, I've tried them both, but if you are thinking you may eventually move to a wooden flute - be it Dave's or anyone else's - the elliptical embouchure hole will be much more like most other good (Irish style) flutes you'll run into down the road, so any transition will be easier if you've already been playing on an elliptical cut. Also, while Dave's flutes are nice and easy to play to begin with, I do think the elliptical embouchure helps develop a more focused lip, which will serve you better as time goes on. Just my opinion, fwiw.

Loren

[Cathy Wilde]

I know the OP and he's a good young flute player who has been playing "a piece of manky PVC" and doing a not-half-bad job of it. In fact, he's been doing a great job with it and has played well beyond its limitations. He also has things like high school, college, and other instruments to think about, so at his age a good Delrin flute is just the ticket.

But for the general board, I'm going on record to ditto Loren, Gordon, Eric, and anyone else who basically said what I'm about to: We've all been to this rodeo more than a few times. Get the best flute you can afford and play the finish off it. When the three of us used to ask these questions on the board back in the Naughties there were no Forbeses, Copleys, Somerses, or Shannons. There were no Tipples. There weren't even Folk Flutes. Now there are, and in my book they're total game-changers. These are all perfectly fine flutes that suit various prices and personalities, and I think they've finally made solid, affordable instruments accessible to everyone. Next time you see any of these makers, thank them from the bottom of your heart because it's a whole new world and we have them to thank for it.

Barring unforeseen disaster no one will get my Murray or Olwell out of my clutches, but if I hadn't lucked into those I honestly believe I'd be pretty darned content with my Forbes (D) and Copley flutes (Eb and C). I've also played a Somers and was very impressed.

Huzzah for affordable, in-tune instruments!

[jim stone]

Just to emphasize something that has been said already in passing.

If you know what you are doing, you can buy a flute that will be resold at at least what you payed for it,
and sometimes for considerably more. This works for cheaper good delrin flutes--so if you buy one of these
and want later to move up to something wooden and more expensive, you have the option of selling
the delrin flute. It also works for the pricey good flute....it isn't as though you spent the money on
a vacation or drank it away on beer. So one dimension of flute buying is that it can be viewed
as a mode of investment. You can make a good deal of money....

Obviously, better flutes don't necessarily make better players, practice is more important,
but they can be more expressive and, in part for that reason, more demanding. If there's more in
'em, they can bring out more in you and in that way make for better players. Also they sound better
during the process and may work better in venues like sessions.

For some of us this thing is a passion, and if it is, well, Aanvil's advice about the Doyle
is well taken; I don't think I would go so far as the waiting list for the keyed Olwell, however.

Finally, for those for whom this is a passion, the Rudall/Pratten divide can become an obsession. One wants the voice
and also the fingering comfort that will carry one through happily for the long term. It helps to find a way
to get to know some different sorts of flutes, for that reason. That's one reason, by the way, not to
commit to the long wait for the Olwell Pratten keyed without first getting an idea of whether
a Pratten is even for you. There's also the possibility that you won't ultimately care about keys
or perhaps not about all six of them.

In sum, money spent isn't necessarily money gone. Sometimes it's just taking a different form,
a form you can play. This isn't helpful, of course, for people without money, nor is it of interest
for people who don't care terribly about fluting. For the rest, there will be opportunities
to buy for less than 1000 dollars a good wooden flute, one you may able to sell
for at least what you paid. Maybe more.

---The Serpent In The Garden---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUS0USTx3l4

[Latticino]

You have already gotten a lot of good advice as regards making the next step for flute purchase. All I can add is that I've been quite pleased with my Somers flute and that you should keep an eye on the used instrument section of the forum. For example there is currently a nice keyless blackwood flute in your range (I have no info or connection to the seller) that you might want to consider: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=88661. I bet you could get a new barrel ring from Jon for a nominal cost and just slip it on to fix it up. IMHO this flute is a steal at the price listed.

[Doug_Tipple]

Did someone say, "touchy feely purse fight"?

Edit: Let me say that my comment above has nothing to do with the merits of any of the flutes mentioned. I merely wanted to say that Aanvil's comment in the preceding post was funny. I have never heard the expression "touchy feely purse fight". I just wanted to say it myself, that's all.