If I were to go to a session....

Dragon · Post by **Dragon** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:06 pm

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Well, I thought they were supposed to be fun for the others at the session, too...

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Playing music is more than just knowing songs. I play very well and I do not read music, no time to learn...when I do have time I play music.
I have been paid to play and the people who heard me said they love my style. Just because a whistler does not play what you think they should play does not mean they will sound bad or cannot play with others.

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:17 pm

Sage wrote::
Just because a whistler does not play what you think they should play does not mean they will sound bad or cannot play with others.

Um, actually, if they go a session and don't know the tunes or the style of playing, then yes, they will sound bad and won't be able to really play with others. This is how whistle players, and bodhranists, get a bad rap.
Chris

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:14 pm

Sage, do you really think that because you have been paid to play music it means anything? I don't think you could be "that good" and still tell someone to play whatever in a session and not to worry about anything. I mean, I understand that a session has to be fun, but if you never had a session ruined by someone who was "doing whatever", maybe you havent been at enough sessions. Gee, or maybe you are one of those who really don't care about other musicians around

I think the real point is: be sensitive to people arund you. Try to get a glimpse of "when" you should play and when you shouldnt. Also, try to respect the fact that some people might have been at that session for ages, and it takes time to get accepted, and if you just come in and throw in your tunes you will be disliked, however good you are.

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:06 am

Sage wrote:
If you want to go to a session then just ... grab a whistle (or a few) and go.

Do Not bring a whistle the first time you go to a session in NYC. Go and listen. You may find out that you're not ready for that session yet. Some of the New York sessions are at the pro/semi-pro level. Look for the person who's leading the session, and when they take a break, introduce yourself, buy them a drink and ask some questions. One of the questions might end up being, "where can I find a session for players who aren't quite so advanced?"

Caj · Post by **Caj** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:22 am

Roger O'Keeffe wrote:Bring a recorder with you by all means (minidisc or tape, not one of those unspeakable things with too many holes in them), but before setting it up explain that you just want to use it to learn the tunes that are played at the session. That way you won't be treated like an intrusive tourist in your own town.

I'd recommend putting off the tape recorder until the 2nd time or later, after they know you (and maybe, after they invite you to join in.) I say this because some people are touchy about recorders, but less touchy the more they know you; but also because if you don't know a lot of session tunes, you won't need the recorder at first anyway. You'll ask for the names of a few suggested tunes to learn, and those will keep you busy a while.

But if you do, as Mr. O'Keeffe says, ask permission before setting it up.

Caj

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:36 am

First time sessions can be intimidating especially if everyone seems to know each other. Most everything has already been said but there's one thing that hasn't been mentioned. That is, play the right kind of music for the type of session your attending. I went to a session awhile back where this guy started hammering on the piano and playing a lot of jazz type tunes. That's great. I love jazz. However the jam session was intended for bluegrass and fiddle tunes. The hammered dulcimers and autoharps were pretty much left out when he kept dominating the thing by playing in keys like Eb, Bb with lots of 9th and 6th chords. He even started a blues number in C#!!!!! What was THAT all about??? I didn't have a harmonica for that one!
I discovered nobody knew the guy. He just showed up like I had. Clearly a case of bad jam behavior.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 8:48 am

Does any of the above advice apply to slow sessions? I have one locally, and I've been tempted to drop by (flute in hand) and see what's up.

whamlyn · Post by **whamlyn** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 11:37 am

Does any of the above advice apply to slow sessions?

Jayhawk,

Generally the slower sessions are an opportunity for people just getting into sessions and I would imagine easier to get into than a session full of experienced players (that's not to say that all experienced players or full-belt sessions are off limits to beginners). There was one going on here for a while before I really started getting into trad music and it was specifically geared towards newer players and even young players who couldn't get into the pubs later on in the evening. Still, if in doubt, ask before jumping in. A little tact can go a long way.

All the best,
Wes

Dragon · Post by **Dragon** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:07 pm

Talk about having words put in my mouth by other people.

I said to go and bring whistles and not to worrie about what ever songs people are playing...I did NOT say play whatever songs you want when other people are playing a song. You DON'T need to know songs to JAM...being when I heard the word JAM it ment to play together in a group (not a particular song, just music). If a person wants to learn songs and play with other people thats great, go for it. But if they just want to play, at least with the groups I have been with, there are plenty of times to play music alone or JAM with others. I don't think sessions should be a "only for people who know songs" club. I have never butted in on a particular song when other people were playing.

And as for whistle players and drummers getting a bad rap...we all do, harpers are picked on for not being able to keep their harps in tune/always having to tune them, NA flute players are picked on for playing "primitive" flutes, etc.

Perhaps people do just butt in on songs with out knowing them, but that is NOT what I am saying. What I was talking about is JAMMING and being given the chance to play any song (as was done in a harp group I went to). If the session is only a place to play particular songs, and if that is what you are intrested in, then pull your hair out all you want and worrie about fitting in and if you're "good enough". I would not spend my time at such session as I think there is value simply in music on its own merrit.

Here's why: Past exp. has told me that such sessions (not whistles in this case) that do not have room for JAMs (aka. think JAMs are a waste) become very competive and turn into an "you better be good/know such and such or you are not welcome club". The group I speek of lost members and fell apart because it was not fun, the "top players" ruled like kings, they treated new players like crap, and in the end it folded. So, that is why I don't like sessions that do not have room for/respect people who play just to play.

As for me being a good whistler, I think I am good, other people like it, but my playing ablity has nothing to do with my advice on sessions. I said I was a good player to make the point that you do not have to know songs to make nice music. If there is a session that thinks you have to know songs to make nice music...I doupt it will stay together for long (In my exp. ) because too much stress and pressure will be placed on people who don't "fit" and they will leave or pull their hair out.

So, my advice is, based on my exp....go to a session with ya whistle, flute, drum, harp, whatever...and play. I think its common sense that if there is a particular song the group wants to play that you don't know, sit it out, and play when your chance comes. If the session does not give you a chance find a diffrent session or learn whatever stuff they want you to learn (but I have neg. feelings about sessions like this for the above reasons).

Dragon · Post by **Dragon** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:17 pm

geek4music wrote:First time sessions can be intimidating especially if everyone seems to know each other. Most everything has already been said but there's one thing that hasn't been mentioned. That is, play the right kind of music for the type of session your attending. I went to a session awhile back where this guy started hammering on the piano and playing a lot of jazz type tunes. That's great. I love jazz. However the jam session was intended for bluegrass and fiddle tunes. The hammered dulcimers and autoharps were pretty much left out when he kept dominating the thing by playing in keys like Eb, Bb with lots of 9th and 6th chords. He even started a blues number in C#!!!!! What was THAT all about??? I didn't have a harmonica for that one!
I discovered nobody knew the guy. He just showed up like I had. Clearly a case of bad jam behavior.

That is bad jam behavior, and I must say I have never seen anything like that happen before. But I understand why the fear of having someone just show up and play. I think the problem was not in what he was playing but takeing over the place and playing when it was not his turn.
I have seen people bring flutes to a harp group, and it went great, but everyone played when it was their turn and everyone got a chance to share their music.

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:25 pm

Oh, this is going to get interesting...

First, of all, I thoroughly disagree with Caj (but politely!). I always bring a tape recorder, and simply ask if anyone minds. The answer, uniformly in the US and Ireland, at 8 different sessions, has been "Be our guest". This is 'the real thing'....and you'll never hear music like it on a professional recording.

Second, Sage, an Irish session is not a jam session. It isn't a round-robin sort of thing either. Its a group of people playing primarily Irish tunes, some songs, led by a strong melody line, each tune played a certain number of times, then flowing into another, usually preset tune, then possibly another, and possibly another after that. The leader, or core group, has firm ideas about what sets to play when, and how to manage a night of music. It really isn't spontaneous.

The core idea of a session is blending...which means knowing the tunes that you play, (even if its knowing only the very basic skeleton of the tune) and not playing what you don't know (unless you're really very very good!), and knowing the lingo (what is a 'tune' and what is a 'song'...its as bad as calling a mare a stallion...the people who know the difference will know you're a rube), the rituals, the proper way to go about being part of the specific group. If you DON'T blend in, you risk being given a bit of a cold shoulder, or far worse, you may be asked to not play. If you are asked to not play and leave in a snit, you may merit applause.

Now some sessions are VERY accomodating to beginners, and you'll always be welcome and guided. Others are very close and closed.

I would also say, by all means, TAKE your whistle. Put it on the table next to your beer, and leave it there until one of the players notices and asks you to join them. Feel free to talk to people between tunes.

Have fun!

Ro3b · Post by **Ro3b** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:52 pm

Sage wrote:You DON'T need to know songs to JAM...being when I heard the word JAM it ment to play together in a group (not a particular song, just music).
(snip)
...If there is a session that thinks you have to know songs to make nice music...I doupt it will stay together for long (In my exp. ) because too much stress and pressure will be placed on people who don't "fit" and they will leave or pull their hair out.

Ok, I think we're talking about two different things here. If we're talking about a Irish music session, then you most certainly do have to know the tunes that are being played, and if you just walk in and start to wank away without knowing the tunes, you won't be made to feel very welcome. (In our session, the owner of the pub might throw you out.)(What a guy!) Understand, Irish music is very structured, and it requires tune knowledge, a fair bit of competence, and being able to listen to what the other musicians are doing and play with them, not just alongside them. It's like a good conversation. What it is definitely not is a free-form, everything-goes jam.

My advice to the original poster is that if you want to get in on a session, play on the tunes you know, and bring a tape recorder for the ones you don't know. And be nice, and don't egoize.

Dragon · Post by **Dragon** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:20 pm

I guess we sure are talking about two diffrent things. I have not been to an "Irish Session" as was described. And yes, the groups I have been with are free form, as opposed to spending the time blending with each other (I am not being mean, just recaping what I read).

I am not sure what a "rube" is or if I even want to know, but I do know this....I don't have a problem with Irish Sessions as, it seems, they are a type of session all on their own. I have seen what has happened to other sessions, however, that were "run" by the top players which belittled learners. It fell apart...that is what happoned. The Irish Session sounds like it is diffrent from eather kind I have been in.

Tyghress, I am telling my point of view as I see it and sharing my exp. People may not like what I have to say, that's fine, its your right. But, if I cannot play at a session, then why bother to go? Yeah, its free music...and that is a great reason to go. But, I rather play.
I would love to visit an Irish Session, it sounds like great fun and don't worrie I won't fight over the floor or push my music over others, or get thrown out, or stomp out in a huff, (I think I covered all of the comments made by other people) as I respect all styles of playing. The only issue I have is with sessions that are more of a "show off time"....I was told in the case of one particular "session" that beginners were welcome but it turned into just a chance for a few good players to strut, and belittle others. When people started talking about having to learn songs... do this and the other thing it reminded me of a very bad exp. The session group did not last and it fell apart (no, it was not a whistle group). I wanted to warn anyone who is intrested in a session that such things do happen and they should not think bad of themselvs/they are bad players if they should fall into such a group.

On the topic of songs, tunes, etc. I personaly don't think it matters, but if in an Irish Session it does, I don't have a prob. with that. But keep in mind that the whistle is used for many other types of music besides Irish. I have been playing the NA flute longer than the whistle. There are no diffrences in "types" of songs...no song vrs. tunes in NA music. I think its good that this issue has been put into the open, (abet people have been rather nasty to me)...so anyone who wants to attend a session should ask if its an "Irish Session" or a "Freeform Session". They may or may not want to get into the particulars of an Irish Session.

The sessions/group I have been to were for a particular inst. such as the harp, and not for a kind of music, such as Irish. For someone who is looking for a session/group they may want to concider if they are intrested in whistles, or whistles and Irish music.

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:46 pm

Sage, I hope I didn't come across as mean! But it is obvious that we are talking about way different things when we use the same word: session. I guess if we used the Irish spelling for that form of musical gathering (I think its seissiun, but don't quote me on that!) and 'jam session' for that form of musical gathering we'd be clearer.

Its kind of ironic, the only slow session I'd ever attended I decided wasn't worth it for just the reason you mentioned...extremely capable players who couldn't slow down for beginners. I've dropped an Irish session that became more of a karaoke than anything else, and one guy (I need to vent before 6pm tonight on this one) who thinks he's just a marvelous singer and MC...

Anyway, I'm going to find that link for Irish session etiquette...it really is handy! Ah...here it is.... http://www.c7r.com/sessionbook/etiquette.html
and another: http://www.mckenna.dk/sessionetikette.htm