Best Low Whistle for Fast Stuff

[Viking of Kiev]

I've been successively using my Chieftain NR Low D for about 6 years for both slow and fast tunes but recently I began thinking of changing it for something different (or of some addition to it specially for fast tunes).
Chieftain's tone seems to me a bit blurred and the whistle itself not as responsive and bright in fast tunes than it could be.

What do you think - what is the best Low whistle for fast tunes?

Watching Youtube i can see that the most of Irish pro musicians use either Goldies or KerryPros.
I was thinking of the latter but may be there are some different opinions?

It is actually not an urgent question - more just of curiosity - in all, I am satisfied with my Chieftain - it is absolutely reliable).

[wizzywig]

There seems to be very little difference between the Goldie and Kerry Pro low D's as far as speed and clarity are concerned. The MK low D is a great whistle but IMO is a bit fluffy in the upper octave as is very loud. I have a Reyburn that is speedy but has an uncomfortable mouth piece yet a great sound. You may want to check www.pipersgrip.com for some more info and ratings. I feel you will end up with one of the forma whistles.
wiz.

[killthemessenger]

Agree with wizzy - the MK is great, very responsive, but just too loud up top, which is why I got rid of it and now have a KPro, which is much better balanced between octaves. They both snap out the ornaments. Just be aware that the KPro needs more warming up to give its best (I usually run the head under hot water for a bit before playing it).

I'd also say that you can modulate the sound of the KPro more - I found the MK sounds pretty much the same however you blow it. The KPro is definitely brighter and purer sounding than the MK.

Well, that was a badly organised post, but I hope you get my meaning, which is that the KPro may be just the ticket for you.

[pancelticpiper]

I personally prefer the MK to all other Low Ds, fast music or slow music.

Maybe it's just the MK Low Ds I've owned (three of them), but the way the octaves were tuned helped even out the volume between the registers. That's because the upper octave is rather sharper in relation to the low octave than on an Overton, so that to play the octaves in tune means strongly blowing the low octave and easing off on the upper octave.

The reverse is true of the Overtons (Bernard Overtons, not Goldies) I've owned. To play the octaves in tune means easing off a tad on the low octave and blowing the upper octave strongly, thus increasing the whistle's inherent volume differential between the octaves.

The Burke Low D I owned was in the middle between these two approaches to the tuning of the octaves.

Can High A and High B on the MK be too loud in some sessions? Yes indeed. But it's the price one pays for a louder low range than the other whistles people have been mentioning (yes I've played them).

[wizzywig]

Then PCP, you can't comment on the Goldies or Kerry Pro's. These whistles are not Overton's.
The MKs are what I would call " flat response whistles " with no colour in either octave, just volume and a bit dead in the colour area.
Expensive, well made and a waiting time. Why are most of the pro's not using them?
IRMC
wiz

[tomcat]

how does the onyx fit into this discussion? the reach is so much easier with its conical bore. it would seem to me it would lend itself well to fast pieces. with some practice, it also has some honk and is rich in overtones. more pure sounding, but quite nice.

[Ian Parfitt]

Can't comment on Overtons or Mk's. But have a Kerry Songbird Low D, Susato Kildare and Dixon DX003.

The Songbird like the Cheiftans and Kerry Pros take a bit of warming up, but once warm can be played slow or really fast. Good intonation in both octaves and transfers smoothly from the lower to the upper register, can be tuned reasonably well, does not shout in the upper octave. The Susato is a different matter it takes a lot of control, but once tamed can also play slow and fast although the tone is not to every ones taste. The Dixon is fine but takes a lot of air in it's original form reasonably good for slow airs and with practice can be played quickly (not fast).

Today I got a Dixon TB003 low D and although I have only played for about half an hour it is a fine whistle, appears to be in tune with itself in both octaves does not shout in the upper and is strong in the lower, appears even through out it's full range. Plays slow and really fast with good intonation; for the money I would say this is a winner. This is a different animal from the DX003. Will report back when I have spent more time with it

[DrPhill]

Today I got a Dixon TB003 low D and although I have only played for about half an hour it is a fine whistle, appears to be in tune with itself in both octaves does not shout in the upper and is strong in the lower, appears even through out it's full range. Plays slow and really fast with good intonation; for the money I would say this is a winner. This is a different animal from the DX003. Will report back when I have spent more time with it

I have the two piece, and it is a cracker - the one I pick up for fast tunes. Mind you, mine is slightly tweaked. Try sliding a piece of 0.5mm plastic sheet into the windway, raising the floor. You will be amazed. If you do not have any, pm me your address and I will send you enough for the job - on condition that you report back. The tweak works well enough with no glue to give you an idea (due to the tapers in the windway). Mine is semi-permanent with 'pritt stick' as the adhesive.

[pancelticpiper]

MKs... no colour in either octave, just volume and a bit dead in the colour area.

Well I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. The MK I play has a more complex, interesting timbre in my opinion than the Overtons I've owned.

I've not owned a Goldie or Kerry Pro but I've played both. A Goldie Low D I tried a while back was a fantastic, amazing whistle, just about the best thing I've ever played.

[ecohawk]

Ok, I'm not a pro but I don't see why that matters at all since their motivation for playing may have nothing to do with the OP's question. A professional could be playing with a group or solo, or doing studio work or backing soundtracks so he or she may own many different instruments for many different reasons. Ask Tony Hinnigan how many low whistles he has. A musician doesn't have to be a pro to enjoy or excel at playing music.

Having said that, in the key of low D I own or have owned two Mk's, an Overton, a Burke composite, a Burke Brass, a Domnahl Na Gruen, a brand new Goldie, an Onyx, Chieftain NR Aluminum, old Chieftain Gold (brass), Optima, Gonzato, Impempe, and a Kerry Pro. I'm not going to compare them all but the Goldie, the matte black MK and the Chieftain Gold are my favorites. The Burke composite is up there too. This group of four favorites are all very different and I would call all of them complex sounding with the exception of the Burke which is more pure and requires more breath to play. My experience is that Colin Goldie and Misha (MK) will adjust their instruments to suit your playing needs so the argument that one of these has a particular characteristic is somewhat misleading since they can be "tweaked" to some extent. It is true that they will have certain tendencies but most of that can be overcome by the player. I agree with PCP that the Goldie is amazing as is the MK. After some tweaking by the maker, they are both very complex and very responsive. The MK is the most even playing between octaves of any low D I've seen if breath pressure is the consideration and the overtones/harmonics are certainly interesting. I also agree that the Goldie wants a little more push at the top while the MK wants one to back off a little in the second octave. I don't find my MK to be shrill or overly loud at the top but then I asked Misha to correct for this. The Goldie is amazing at the bell note while being well balanced up to the second B because I asked for it to be that way.

I find that I prefer my older Chieftains to the newer models. The old Gold (brass) is stunning on some slow airs as long as you've bulked up your biceps to support the weight. I've also spent some personal time tweaking it for myself. I haven't tried asking Phil to customize a newer model but I imagine he would if asked. Someday I will test this theory.

Any of these four favorites is very responsive and quick to finger as long as I've got the lung volume to play the Burke. But the Gonzato is quick and responsive too just not as interesting in tone as the others. I'd say the same for the Onyx.

My advice if you're serious about learning the instrument is to talk to the maker about what you need. They will be honest with you and it's a quite satisfying process as well if you've got the patience.

Good luck with your choice,
ecohawk

[s1m0n]

The best low whistle for fast stuff is a flute.

[Ian Parfitt]

Thanks to Dr Phill for his notes on tweaking the Dixon TB012 (think this is the model?) and the results he acheived.

Tried the tweak, but apart from a slight inprovment on the Bell note (cleaner, slighty more volume) above E the notes began to get shriller ( nasal quality) as I got to top D, most notable on the C#. The second octave appeared to be very slighty cleaner, less chiff, but very difficult to judge. So I have left the whistle untweaked and will go with less volumn in the Bell note. The tweak did not have any apparant difference in the air requirements.

Maybe this model (Dixon TB003) is a good as it gets. However it would useful to get the thoughts of other tweakers. For the cost, this is a stunning whistle and yes it can be played quickly.

When I am able to get some thin aluminium sheet I will try lowering the windway and see if this reduces the air requirements, this tweak worked on the previous Dixon low D (DX003).

[DrPhill]

Thanks to Dr Phill for his notes on tweaking the Dixon TB012 (think this is the model?) and the results he acheived.

Tried the tweak, but apart from a slight inprovment on the Bell note (cleaner, slighty more volume) above E the notes began to get shriller ( nasal quality) as I got to top D, most notable on the C#. The second octave appeared to be very slighty cleaner, less chiff, but very difficult to judge. So I have left the whistle untweaked and will go with less volumn in the Bell note. The tweak did not have any apparant difference in the air requirements.

Maybe this model (Dixon TB003) is a good as it gets. However it would useful to get the thoughts of other tweakers. For the cost, this is a stunning whistle and yes it can be played quickly.

When I am able to get some thin aluminium sheet I will try lowering the windway and see if this reduces the air requirements, this tweak worked on the previous Dixon low D (DX003).

Shame, that - I found that where the plastic insert finished (relative to the bevel on the end of the block) was critical so if you have the motivation try adjusting that. If we meet up at Watchet later in the year we can compare results.

[pancelticpiper]

The best low whistle for fast stuff is a flute.

True enough! But not an option for some.