Asymmetrical Labium- Effects?

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

I recently got a high-end whistle, but being quite busy with school I wasn't able to play it more than a few times until recently. The whistle sounds pretty good to me, although high A and B are piercing, and the the joint where the head meets the body leaks moisture after playing 10+ minutes. I did notice, however, something about the blade that was different than my other whistles.

I noticed a tiny nick in the blade:


And the blade edge was asymmetrically sharpened:


Note: for the second picture, what you see is the best angle I could get. The left side that appears to have a "longer" overcut is actually more perpendicular to the airstream, that is, it is a duller edge than the right side.

Would these asymmetries have any negative effect on the sound? That is, could I be getting a better tone? Or is this a minor detail compared to the rest of the craftsmanship, which appears excellent? I'd appreciate any input our whistlemakers have to offer.

Thanks!
CS

[Feadoggie]

My first suggestion would be to talk to the maker of your whistle first, if that is possible. Doesn't matter much what the rest of us think. We're just armchair analysts by comparison to the maker.

A blunt edge on a labium isn't always a terrible thing. You want to create some turbulence not merely split the airstream.

A nick in the blade isn't always a terrible thing either. In some cases it makes little to no difference in tone at all. In other cases it gives an otherwise lifeless whistle some character. So it's really hard to tell unless you had a grasp of the tone before the nick and noticed a change for the worse after the nick occurred. Tone can be such a subjective thing in the end. If you are happy with the way the whistle sounds and responds I would not sweat it.

How did it play and sound before the nick? Were the A and B easier to get to, require less push?

A lot of handmade whistles don't stand up well to the magnifying glass or macro lens scrutiny but they can still play just fine.

Feadoggie

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Oh, I was hoping you'd answer, you've got such a good grasp of the technical aspects of whistles. The condition the whistle appears in the photograph is the one I received it in, so I can't evaluate before/after. Thanks so much for your info, I wasn't sure if this was one of those little things where a minor asymmetry could throw off the whole thing. The reason I asked here is because I didn't want to bother the maker with some silly detail that wasn't a problem; I don't really like to nitpick people's work if there's not an easily determinable problem.

[ecohawk]

As an aside, you mentioned that this is a high-end whistle. I don't know what that means to you but any maker I'm aware of will make every effort to achieve the characteristics you want. Most of them will accept a request to make adjustments unless it's beyond the scope of the design.

If it doesn't sound or play the way you want, contact the maker and talk to them. They're pretty reasonable folks IMO. At least they've never let me down.

ecohawk

[Jerry Freeman]

I haven't found that the kind of differences you're showing there have any effect at all. This may be why the maker didn't focus his attention on making the soundblade more aesthetically perfect. I may be missing something and I'm open to new information, but from what I've observed, these are not problematic blemishes.

This assumes the area underneath the soundblade inside the whistlehead is smooth and not rough or irregular. Irregularities or roughness on the underside of the soundblade (or anywhere inside the whistle, for that matter) can make a significant difference.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[highwood]

Look good or sound good.
Taking a good sounding whistle and changing its labium to look good may easily make it sound not so good. (been there, done that)
Perhaps the maker purposefully made it that way - sharper one side then the other (perhaps I should try this)
Knowing when to stop is one of the tricks to making whistles (and many other things) once you take off a little wood there is no going back.
If you're happy with the sound be happy.
If you're not talk to the maker - he/she will probably know whether it is the labium's fault or something completely different.
If you're happy with the sound but still can't let it go talk to the maker it might help.

It is also quite possible that the maker was focusing on sound quality, or playability and that a tweak to the labium resulting in what they were aiming for resulted in less than perfect symmetry of the labium.

[killthemessenger]

You don't say how much you paid, but that looks like shoddy workmanship to me. A "high end" whistle should be cleanly finished. If it was me, I'd send it back for a replacement or simply return it.

If you got it off a tourist booth in Bucharest and it turned out to be the best playing instrument you've ever had despite being made with an adze, that would be a great find. But if you pay a high end price for something that has great styling, nice silver fittings and lovely wood but issues with its playability and a shoddily finished labium/windway assembly, then the maker is obviously not putting his energy into the areas that really matter.

Edited to say: My background is recorder, where the finish of handmade instruments is generally required to be perfect. But they cost many times more than even the most expensive whistles.

Edited again: And, having said all that - I have a Goldie high D with not only a nick, but a considerable groove running diagonally under the labium. It plays fine.

[Mr.Gumby]

Just goes to show that 'expensive' does not equal 'high end'.

[robert schuler]

When I build a musical instrument for sale it must be as close to perfect as possible. I don't build whistles for sale but I can see the workmenship of your whistle is not very good. An extra 5 minutes with a file could have made all the difference. But if the instrument plays well then enjoy it... Bob.

[MTGuru]

I'm more or less with KTM and Mr. G on this. Yes, a whistle doesn't have to look good (much less perfect) to sound good. But that doesn't mean it has to look bad to sound good, either ...

Sorry, but the workmanship evident in the photos is pretty appalling.

[Jerry Freeman]

We need to take into account the fact that the photo is highly magnified. If the same image were posted at the size of the actual whistle, it might not look like anything of concern at all.

The main thing is, how does the whistle play? As has been stated above, once a whistle is playing really well, it doesn't pay for the maker to fuss over appearance on such a critical area as the soundblade edge. There's too much danger of irreversibly spoiling a really good voicing. That's one place on a whistle where "just a little more" touching up can be a big mistake.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[MTGuru]

Yes ... But I'd expect a maker to start with a clean - and all things being equal, symmetrical and predictable - default configuration, then take care of the individual voicing from there. Whereas this blade looks hacked up, regardless of how it sounds.

I get your valid point, Jerry. But your own meticulousness is legendary, and you yourself would never allow something like this to escape into the wild.

As for magnification, an experienced eye like mine wouldn't need magnification to see the flaws here.

[Jerry Freeman]

But your own meticulousness is legendary, and you yourself would never allow something like this to escape into the wild.

Oh, shoot.

Now I have to wrestle another whistle maker over who's more meticulous?

Sigh.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[Feadoggie]

I recently got a high-end whistle, but being quite busy with school I wasn't able to play it more than a few times until recently.

I did not ask this in my original post. But I think it is pertinant to the direction this thread has gone.

Madman, did you buy this whistle new or second hand? I had assumed it might be a second hand instrument.

Feadoggie

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

I bought this new from Paul [redacted]. I've not noticed anything too out of line in the sound, but then again, this is my first wooden whistle and my first whistle over 50 USD.

Edit: though one thing I do notice is that it's louder than my susato s-series d, are these usually like that?

I also want to make it clear that I'm not trying to nitpick inconsequential details or publically display a private problem, but as someone who has little experience with wooden whistles I want to make sure that I'm getting the best possible tone out of the instrument I know relatively little about. I don't care about aesthetics, as long as it sounds as it's supposed to.