Rudall & Rose Flute 15 Piazza, Covent Garden for Sale 1331

[Gollum616]

and again but this time with some of the images right way up

[MTGuru]

Gollum ... Posting a ton of thumbnail images of your flute does not really help. Please figure out how to post proper links, reasonably sized. Or perhaps it's time to simply correspond directly with the posters here who have expressed interest and assistance. Thanks. - Moderator

[Gollum616]

My apologies. I will endeavour to be more precise in future.

[jemtheflute]

OK, seeing things a bit more clearly, the socket isn't lined nor the rim end-grain covered. But the sleeve is flush-fitted and a tidy job.

[Gollum616]

I would also like to add a big thank you to all the posters, your help and information is very much appreciated.

If the item does not sell I may think about getting it restored, yes my lass, does play antique flutes, a boxwood or something like that and she's worth it.

[Denny]

as links... (image shack makes it fairly straightforward)

[jemtheflute]

Having manipulated the view looking into the lower body socket, I can't see for sure, but it seems to me the crack is not quite in the line of the open tone-holes - seems to be on the long F key's side of the spine line and to run on a slightly oblique line which would just miss the G hole. It looks to be held well shut by the sleeve.

[Aanvil]

I would also like to add a big thank you to all the posters, your help and information is very much appreciated.

If the item does not sell I may think about getting it restored, yes my lass, does play antique flutes, a boxwood or something like that and she's worth it.

Well my fellow, girls may come on go but flutes? Flutes are forever.

[radcliff]

I would also like to add a big thank you to all the posters, your help and information is very much appreciated.

If the item does not sell I may think about getting it restored, yes my lass, does play antique flutes, a boxwood or something like that and she's worth it. :

Does she? Wow! That's remind me an old story.... I guess I'm getting old.. gosh!

Well my fellow, girls may come on go but flutes? Flutes are forever.

Amazing truth!

[Gollum616]

I don't know if this aids the discussion or not but according to an ebay correspondence

".Bottom B keys linkage missing.Have you got these parts? Pads dont look great.Repair to middle section not really good.It encroaches on F finger.Will give trouble to seal.Has it been played recently?Is it in good playing condition?Nice to have original case,but V bad condition.Looks like it needs major overhaul,but there is enough of it there to be worthwhile........"Brass sleeve in tuning slide.Should be blackwood.only used brass in Rudall patent head"......."The linkage for B keys on the foot is a bigger problem.The repair to the bottom mid section,is at best clumsy in my opinion.I know from experience that this will leak if not now, definitely later on.We are talking about a valuable and potentially good flute here,but whoever buys this flute is speculating on what level of play-ability it will have.With this type of instrument everything in terms of dynamics is absolutely critical.I have played a few Rudalls,they are either fabulous,or as we say over here a pup"

well that's the crux of it

[kkrell]

I don't know if this aids the discussion or not but according to an ebay correspondence

".Bottom B keys linkage missing.Have you got these parts? Pads dont look great.Repair to middle section not really good.It encroaches on F finger.Will give trouble to seal.Has it been played recently?Is it in good playing condition?Nice to have original case,but V bad condition.Looks like it needs major overhaul,but there is enough of it there to be worthwhile........"Brass sleeve in tuning slide.Should be blackwood.only used brass in Rudall patent head"......."The linkage for B keys on the foot is a bigger problem.The repair to the bottom mid section,is at best clumsy in my opinion.I know from experience that this will leak if not now, definitely later on.We are talking about a valuable and potentially good flute here,but whoever buys this flute is speculating on what level of play-ability it will have.With this type of instrument everything in terms of dynamics is absolutely critical.I have played a few Rudalls,they are either fabulous,or as we say over here a pup"

well that's the crux of it

Yes, mostly factually correct (although I don't know why they're going on about the slide construction). I presume that by B keys they're referring to B=Bottom, as those are C & C# keys, normally kept in the open position. At least the plugs & seats are there. In any case, their manner of description seems geared primarily towards you letting them take it off your hands at a bargain price. Looks to me as if you have priced current condition into your recently lowered asking price. BTW, buyers on eBay are always speculating on level of playability, not having the flute in their hands in a condition for trial. No different than from any other item being offered, except "new in box" commodities.

[jemtheflute]

Kevin has said most of what I would have done regarding the eBay correspondence. S/he cannot have meant "blackwood" - none of that involved in this flute, which is cocus! Anyway, the head liner tubes are usually brass, usually silver- or tin-plated on the interior. Occasionally they may have used solid sterling silver tubes, but not normally. The above-mentioned #2130, in my hands as I write, the head of which is very similar to yours, Gollum, has a brass head liner tube which was silver-plated on the outside of the protruding tuning slide part and is tin-plated internally. The barrel liner is also brass with a silver collar around the protruding section - also their (and other London makers) normal method.

So, the eBay writer clearly partly knows his/her stuff, but hasn't expressed his/her intended meanings accurately! Language and literacy skills!!!!!!

The comment about the pads, given the years-unplayed, recently de-gunked, newly discovered nature of the beast, is rather silly - one would expect them to be knackered and to need replacing, and that is not a big or expensive job. Ditto other basic overhaul work like buffer corks and joint lappings.

The lower body socket sleeve repair might well leak, but that is actually one of the easier things to fix. (Remove it, clean everything, stabilise & seal crack, replace sleeve with modern glue, and it will seal. The alternative is what Jon C suggested, introduce new wood - much more complex and expensive to do, especially given the sleeve has been flush fitted, so original surface wood is missing - more than just socket-bushing will be required.) As I wrote before, the biggest/most expensive/most difficult to find someone willing to do job is replacement of the missing C# and C touch levers. Rebuilding the wooden block for them is relatively routine for a specialist.

[popsnorkle]

If the item does not sell I may think about getting it restored, yes my lass, does play antique flutes, a boxwood or something like that and she's worth it.

If she's worth it why list it on eBay at all?

[Jon C.]

I am wondering about the serial number, in the photo, it looks more like a 2331 then a 1331.
Just wondering...

[benhall.1]

I don't think it's "language and literacy skills" (suggested by Jem) that are the problem with the writer on your ebay listing, Gollum616. It looks to me like mischievous posting to try and put bidders off in the hope that he can get it at a low price.

The stamp, though not clearly visible in your photos, is instantly recognisable as the usual "Rudall & Rose" stamp. "B keys" are irrelevant to this flute, though it is an issue, as flagged by others, that the C and C# keys are missing. Shame, that. Pads are, as Jem says, easy to replace and shouldn't affect value much if at all, and I think the case is in good condition, by the look of it. The leather hinge usually breaks. I mean, it would, wouldn't it? How these things have lasted this long is beyond me. And his price policing ("I don't think it is quite worth what you are asking for it") is out of order, in my opinion. Though, of course, all's fair in love, war and eBay I suppose.