Help - Atholl Highlanders

[andref]

Hi,
I've been away for a while, but never ever stooped practicing. Yet, as of late, I stumbled into the most horrendous piece for flute ever: The Atholl Highlanders. The second part (and only the second part) is obscenely difficult to play at session speed:

Ace Ace|Adf Adf|Ace Ace|Bcd c2B|
Ace Ace|Adf Adf|eae fed|cdB A3:|

It's impossible to slur (is it?) Using the throat is too slow, and I've had to resort to tonguing. But it comes out all mangled and horrible. I just HATE those 2 arpeggios (Ace - Adf) with a passion. Fiddlers do it easily as well as the concertina players, Even whistlers are able to do it nicely. Why is this thing so damning difficult on the flute?

Sorry for the rant, but if anyone can come up with some suggestions for practice or even pointers of decent flute performances of this tune, I would be deeply grateful

Thanks for any help,

[Peter Duggan]

obscenely difficult to play at session speed

So what's 'session speed'? (It's a 6/8 march too often driven into a jig!)

It's impossible to slur (is it?)

No.

[Cathy Wilde]

I play that tune with our band. After about 15 years I can say I've about got it, but I still think it's an absolutely rotten flute tune, and I'm never thrilled when it pops up on the set list. It's a Northern or Scottish fiddle tune, really. I also believe it might be a march but "Fiddlesticks" went and ruined it for everyone. Anyway, the one recording I can think of is Frankie Kennedy and Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh's "Ceol Aduaidh" recording, and from the sound of the flute I almost wonder if he's playing a high-pitch flute on it (maybe an E flute, which means you play A tunes in G, which means life would be beautiful)? Regardless, he has some lovely variations that function as nice workarounds, so it's probably worth tracking that down. However, you'll notice they also play it at a lovely sensible pace, too, unlike most folk I know ...

http://claddaghrecords.com/WWW/catalog/ ... ts_id=2892

I'm not sure if it's available for download, but the CD is something any serious flute player should have, anyway.

FWIW, it's actually lots of fun on an A whistle. But if you don't have access to one of those, it just might be an excellent time to go to the bar. Some tunes aren't meant to be killing yourself over.

Oh, BTW, I use a combination of slur and glottals: A-slur-C-cut/glottal E, etc. to emphasize the repeated top note. Also, it's the only way I can figure out how to keep my left hand from falling off. Good luck!

[Peter Duggan]

It's a Northern or Scottish fiddle tune, really.

Pipe (GHB) tune, beyond doubt.

[Cathy Wilde]

Ah, duh. That would make sense. And it was a Highland piper who got us into that mess to start with ... see? I've blanked it out.

If I still drank I would be going to the bar during it for sure. Although I should say that the Frankie/Mairead recording did make me appreciate it in a whole new light. Poor old tune, all beat to death ...

[Tjones]

This is of course a Highland pipers tune and fingers very nicely on a highland chanter, the G#'s are also a challenge for the flute. The Key of A isn't the friendliest. If you play it in the key of D then it's much easier. Try starting the tune in D and see if the fiddles follow:twisted:

Tjones

[Peter Duggan]

the G#'s are also a challenge for the flute.

What G#s?

[andref]

Dear Cathy

I play that tune with our band. After about 15 years I can say I've about got it, but I still think it's an absolutely rotten flute tune, and I'm never thrilled when it pops up on the set list

Thanks for your support. it's not only me, after all. Yes, it's true I complain but I probably shouldn't. You have been playing for 15 years, and me, only slightly less: 1.5 years But I can get most tunes if not with the right ornaments, at least I can play them at tempo, while this one is a terrible mess. And I've been struggling with it for 5 months.

Anyway, the one recording I can think of is Frankie Kennedy and Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh's "Ceol Aduaidh" recording, and from the sound of the flute I almost wonder if he's playing a high-pitch flute on it (maybe an E flute, which means you play A tunes in G, which means life would be beautiful)? Regardless, he has some lovely variations that function as nice workarounds, so it's probably worth tracking that down. However, you'll notice they also play it at a lovely sensible pace, too, unlike most folk I know ...

http://claddaghrecords.com/WWW/catalog/ ... ts_id=2892

I'm not sure if it's available for download, but the CD is something any serious flute player should have, anyway.

Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely check it out

FWIW, it's actually lots of fun on an A whistle. But if you don't have access to one of those, it just might be an excellent time to go to the bar. Some tunes aren't meant to be killing yourself over.

Oh, BTW, I use a combination of slur and glottals: A-slur-C-cut/glottal E, etc. to emphasize the repeated top note. Also, it's the only way I can figure out how to keep my left hand from falling off. Good luck!

I practice it every single day and cannot get it straight! But you are right. It's probably not worthy to become obsessed with it . Perhaps in 2-3 years it will come out nicely

And that suggestion of slurring form A to c and then use a glotal for e might be worth some effort. Probably on the second arpeggio, using the same glotal going from A to d and then slurring up to f#... hmmmm. this will take some time, but it might work... Thank you!

Oh and Peter, yes we play it as a jig. and a very fast jig. I would say 380 bpm. It's a typical 6/8 jig so it is equivalent to a 190 bpm as a 3/4 tune [EDIT: I did the math wrong - silly me! - as we have 2 beats per bar and not 6, the tempo I was quoting (6/8 @ 380 bpm), should be divided by 3 and not by 2 as I've done So the actual tempo we play in our sessions is something on the line of 125 bpm, or there about - Sorry for the confusion! ]

[JackCampin]

bpm for a jig is measured two to a bar. Around 3/8=120 would be normal dancing speed. Maybe 3/8=132-136 for a session.

It was originally a slow march with an even slower section in the middle in duple time (one old title for the tune is "The Duke of Athole's Pibroch", which doesn't exactly suggest jig speed). I have never heard that duple time bit played.

[jim stone]

How fast do reels get played in (good) sessions, mostly?
Hornpipes?

[andref]

bpm for a jig is measured two to a bar. Around 3/8=120 would be normal dancing speed. Maybe 3/8=132-136 for a session.

It was originally a slow march with an even slower section in the middle in duple time (one old title for the tune is "The Duke of Athole's Pibroch", which doesn't exactly suggest jig speed). I have never heard that duple time bit played.

.

So we play it (not me though!) at "blazing speed"! Using your way of measuring a jig's tempo (which makes sense) we are playing it around 180-190 bpm. That's why it's so hard!

In checking for other references I found this youtube video some time ago, which is nicely played with a fiddle. As of the present, I can actually keep up with her, even slurring the difficult B part arpeggios. I thought she was playing it slowly, compared to what I'm used to, so never really saw it as a guide...

So the problem are probably my steroids-fed session mates and not my flute playing - it is ALWAYS a problem, but apparently not for this issue!

[emmdee]

Cathy's right. Grab an A whistle and off you go. Every home should have one...

m.d.

[LorenzoFlute]

This is not an easy tune to get right, but it's not at all THAT hard. You've been playing only for 1,5 years, give it more time. There are tunes that are way harder for flute, especially if keys are involved. If they're really playing it at 190bpm (which I seriously doubt), that's way too fast, this is supposed to be music, not a race. Just for reference on speed, in the video you linked they are playing at about 90bpm...

[andref]

in the video you linked they are playing at about 90bpm...

Really? I thought she was at 110-120 bpm! I have to check my bpm perception and bring my metronome to the session. If so, I probably inflated my numbers ...

[Peter Duggan]

Twice through the complete four-parter with repeats in c.2 mins 4 secs = 256 beats (8 x 32) in 124 seconds = c.124 bpm, which is full jig speed and way beyond march tempo (though IMHO this tune can take it), with anything quicker being overdriven and 190 bpm just anti-musical lunacy (as in don't do it because it's not even 'exciting')!