Certain School Subjects: What a waste!

[osage59]

""The classic defense of making all high school students take algebra is that it trains people to think. Someone in this discussion pointed out: (a) it is just an intuitive assertion that algebra trains people to think better. Where is the evidence to support that idea? We've putting a lot of money and energy into that idea, with no data to support it. (b) There are lots of other ways in education to teach people to think via courses and activities that WILL be more useful to people as adults and workers/professionals....""

Algebra didn't do it for me, but learning how to parse sentences was helpful

[I.D.10-t]

I.D.10-t: Algebra is not arithmetic

I was going one step further. No variables. It was a separate thought.

[Denny]

b-b-but there are so many variables

[I.D.10-t]

As for using algebra, this is honestly how I bake my Apple Nut cake in the morning. Although I don't have it fully written out this is the way I do it.
~~~~~
Apple Nut cake in 8"skillet

Solids
1.5C Grain
2 Tsp leavening
1 Apple
1/2 C Walnuts
1 Tsp. Cinnamon
0-3 Tbs Brown Sugar (how sweet are those apples?)

Liquid
2/3 C Dairy
1-2 Tbs. oil
1 large egg

1.5C grain= X (all purpose flour) + Y (rolled oats) + Z (oat flour) where 1.5/2<X<1.5/4

2/3C Dairy= X (milk) + Y(yogurt)+ Z (sour cream) where Milk>1/3C, Y and Z may=0

2 Tsp leavening = 1 Tsp. baking powder+1 Tsp. baking soda if acidic, 2 Tsp. baking powder if not.

Mix like a muffin recipe and bake at 450 for 20-25 min.
~~~~
Does that qualify as daily use?

[Denny]

fer me...

chemistry wouldn't be the same without it

[Innocent Bystander]

The "trains people to think" is what they used to say about Latin. Mind you, when you've been on the receiving end of an interrogation on your Latin parsing, Like the Cleese/Chapman sketch in "Life of Brian" it does tend to stimulate the brain-cells a bit. Algebra is lovely, and calculus is delight!

The sketch scripted.

[emmline]

I'm pretty sure studying Japanese is fine exercise for your thinker. Sometimes it actually hurts a little.

[mutepointe]

That's an interesting concept, teaching us to think by teaching us a subject that's actually useful. I wonder what that "more universal" subject would be. I like the concept of teaching holistically too.

[dwest]

I like the concept of teaching holistically too.

Do you mean interdisciplinary or integrated?

[Dale]

""The classic defense of making all high school students take algebra is that it trains people to think. Someone in this discussion pointed out: (a) it is just an intuitive assertion that algebra trains people to think better. Where is the evidence to support that idea? We've putting a lot of money and energy into that idea, with no data to support it. (b) There are lots of other ways in education to teach people to think via courses and activities that WILL be more useful to people as adults and workers/professionals....""

Algebra didn't do it for me, but learning how to parse sentences was helpful

Sentences are overrated. <-Like this one.

[Dale]

Dale: I couldn't find yer clip @ NPR.ORG. Was it a locally produced bit? Could I have the call letters for the station?

Here it is:

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2012/01/30/test-rick-roach

It was actually one part of a discussion about standardized testing.

[Denny]

thanks!

okay, I didn't like the math test much but the reading wasn't as dodgy

[fearfaoin]

...it is just an intuitive assertion that algebra trains people to think better. Where is the evidence to support that idea?

There are probably similar problems with
arguments for keeping music education.

I think a better argument for teaching
everyone up to a certain level of math,
science, and language skills is that we need
a shared cultural baseline just to be able to
collectively progress as a society.

Heck, I was on a jury once where I was
practically having to teach a basic logic
class to help us agree on interpreting the
NC law on 2nd degree Manslaughter. I
can't remember the exact language, but
it was close to this: "if the defendant is
involved in a fight in which a party dies
AND the defendant started the fight OR
the defendant was defending himself AND
used unnecessary force, then the defendant
committed 2nd degree Manslaughter."
It was like pulling teeth to convince some
of my fellow jurors that, due to operator
precedence, "the defendant was defending
himself AND used unnecessary force" was a
logical unit that should be evaluated before
the OR.

[mutepointe]

Couldn't you just vote on whether the defendent looked guilty enough?

[dwest]

Couldn't you just vote on whether the defendent looked guilty enough?

That's a mite prejudiced, I figure if they have cuffs and chains on that's good enough fer me ta say they're guilty. A few innocent goths every now and then is the price we have to pay for a civil society.