Finally found a Harper high D...and well worth the effort

[CrazedHavoc]

Unfortunately, many of us don't have a means to try before buying.

[Mr.Gumby]

And that's how you end up buying whistles wouldn't have gone near if you had had the opportunity for a test drive.

It's the core of the problem, the situation provides low incentive for whistle makers to up the quality and few here will admit to having bought a whistle they don't like.

I bought the Harper second hand, when it arrived I sent a message to the seller to say the whistle had arrived safely and added my assessment. He immediately came back saying it was pretty much what he thought. Keeps the used instrument market alive, doesn't it?

But that's a discussion for another thread, the Harper is what it is, it just so happened it didn't suit my playing.

[HarperClassic]

Indeed, as with any high end whistle if possible a trial is worth it.

I won't pretend that Steve's whistles will suit everyone, and I'm sure that the other whistle makers out there would agree the same about their whistles, this after all is what makes them original and special to their owners (although I have to say most people I have spoken to are happy with their Harper Classic! I am obviously bias ).

Mr.G all feedback is good, I'll drop you a message at some point if that's ok? I would be interested in a bit more information on your experience, but as you say it is probably just the fact that the whistle isn't for you.

Stuart

[breqwas]

A few years ago, when I still was an active member of the C&F boards, I started once a thread called "whistles you don't like" (or smth like that). It was frozen and then deleted by MTGuru as a very impolite one, although no one had posted anything impolite there by that time.

As for me, it would be better if everyone could say whatever they think. There's some sort of "political correctness" rule concerning whistles and whistle makers on this board - unspoken, but pretty strict. Or at least it was like that a few years ago. When you read the board, it looks like every whistle on earth (which has a maker) is a piece of art, and that's obviously not true. Uh, well, I do not like the political correctness in any form, and don't think it's good for us.

Anyway, what I said about Harper whistles, I would say again. That's the best whistle I ever had - for me it was like that. It's so great to know you own a best instrument in the world, do not want any other and do not envy anyone. Man, I wish I could marry likewise!

[jiminos]

@ mr gumby, as others have said... some of us don't live in an area that provides the opportunity to test drive whistles or flutes.... there are no stores or shops around here that carry Gene Milligan's or Syndt's or Oz Vambraces or Burke's or Susato's or on and on and on.... test driving is not an option.... using your advice, i would not be able to purchase any whistles except for the occasional Clarke, Gen or Feadog sporadically offered at the local music store....

... since i can't test drive... i read the reviews whistles receive, i look for videos of the whistles in use by people who really know how to use them... i listen to recordings of people playing them.... and... sometimes I buy a whistle... i've purchased a few that did not work out for me.... not because they were bad whistles, but because i was not the right person for that particular whistle.

... as to "providing little incentive to improve"... what a harsh statement... how many of the makers out there do you suppose really work hard to provide an adequate whistle? you know, "good enough to sell a few but not really my best effort"... "something i can make a few bucks off, but not something i'd want to put my name on".... "eh, it's okay, i've sold a fair number of them. i don't really need to improve it." really? is that what you think of the makers? Do you really believe that people like Gene, or David, or Steve really approach their craftsmanship in that manner? perhaps not, but your words give that impression...

... i am sure your advice was well intended.... my response is.

be well,

jim

[Peter Duggan]

And that's how you end up buying whistles wouldn't have gone near if you had had the opportunity for a test drive.

Couldn't agree more!

@ mr gumby, as others have said... some of us don't live in an area that provides the opportunity to test drive whistles or flutes....

Like me, although I'm still extremely wary of purchasing without testing first...

i've purchased a few that did not work out for me.... not because they were bad whistles, but because i was not the right person for that particular whistle.

Because some of mine have quite frankly been bad whistles!

[ecohawk]

There's some sort of "political correctness" rule concerning whistles and whistle makers on this board - unspoken, but pretty strict. Or at least it was like that a few years ago. When you read the board, it looks like every whistle on earth (which has a maker) is a piece of art, and that's obviously not true. Uh, well, I do not like the political correctness in any form, and don't think it's good for us.

I'd differ with this assessment of the current state of this board. Just a simple read through of the current list of topics from the past week will show several critical assessments of whistles, some of which are made by members of C&F. I find the honesty here refreshing actually. I'd also say, having dealt with most of the makers around, that ALL of them will correct any instrument to the best of their ability if asked to do so and I can witness to that fact because I've sent instruments back to makers on several occasions for corrections. If someone is unhappy with an instrument, I'd be shocked that any maker here on C&F wouldn't do their level best to accommodate. I even bought a whistle from another C&F'er that Paul Busman adjusted for me despite the fact I didn't buy it from him.

I don't find this board to be politically correct at all but I also don't have a problem with political correctness if someone chooses to practice it. That's their business. We're all adults here I think. On second thought, there might be some kids here so I'll retract that last sentence.

This board is so serious tonight. Can't we all just get along!

As to the Harper whistles. I have a high D and a high C. The C is one of the top five whistles that I own, well in tune, with a bold even tone and volume from top to bottom. The D is nicely in tune but not quite as bold as the C. Still better than many.

ecohawk

[Mr.Gumby]

When people tell me, as they invariably do in these threads, that they don't live in a place where they can try out all whistles, there's always an undertone of, well, whatever it is. I think most of us are unable to try out all whistles before buying. And as I said above, I think that's exactly what keeps the second hand whistle market going the way it does, with all it's euphemisms like 'this whistle just doesn't get the time it deserves', 'this doesn't suit my playing'. I am convinced that whistlemakers would really have to up their game if their wares could be sampled before purchase.

I am not a very regular whistle buyer but sometimes there's a spate of people giving good reviews to whistles that make me curious and temptation overcomes me. Let me tell you this: of all the (designer) whistles I was able to try I had no urge to buy them after the testdrive and all the ones I bought untried would not have been bought if I had.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, whistle buyers should ask a maker for a trial period to see if the whistle is suitable. If the maker doesn't agree to that, the buyer should just walk away.

[killthemessenger]

Let me tell you this: of all the (designer) whistles I was able to try I had no urge to buy them after the testdrive and all the ones I bought untried would not have been bought if I had.

That's quite a surprising result, don't you think? From the couple of clips of you playing I've heard, you're an excellent musician. It'd be interesting to know what it is about all the designer whistles you've tried or bought that disqualified them for you. Given that they vary hugely, in my experience, in terms of tone and response.

I've bought a few whistles sight unseen, as it is my only option in Italy, and the only one that was a real disappointment was the Oz, which I gave to a friend who's very happy with it.

[Mr.Gumby]

There's a variety of reasons, there have been ones that were overall fine that didn't really suit me but there weren't any real issues with.

My greatest stumbling point is poor balance. I think balancing the higher and lower hand notes is the number one challenge for any whistle maker. Finding a good compromise between a decently strong lower hand and top notes that don't make the windows rattle (on top of a big jump in the breath requirement to make them sound at all) is the hallmark of an accomplished maker. I realise there's a grey area of taste but there comes a point where an instrument falls over the edge into the area of plain old poor balance and poor voicing and it takes skill and sensitivity on the maker's part to bring that balancing act to a good end.

Responsiveness and agility are crucial issues too.

I think a maker who combines a high standard of craftmanship with being an accomplished musician always has the upper hand.

[killthemessenger]

I totally agree. Which is why I didn't like the Oz - that particular one just required too much of a blast from the high A upwards. And it may well be that it was just that particular instrument.

[Mr.Gumby]

I think hearing a maker play his own whistles can be very telling.

First of all it can give an impression of what he/she is trying to achieve, a glimpse of the aesthetic he/she is working towards. But it is also an insight in ability. As soon as a maker fails to play with a full and nicely rounded tone I'd be suspicious of his ability to voice a whistle properly.

I saw a video posted somewhere recently that showed a maker playing a scale on one of his own whistles. He underblew in a big way and the scale was out of tune as a result. I'd run a mile.

Sorry about the thread drift, back to Harpers. But do try them, or any whistle, before you buy.

[cboody]

Hmm. Just posted this I thought... Pardon the repeat if there are two.

This won't work for everyone, but the Irish flute store will accept return of anything you purchase from them. You'll need to pay postage back, but you'll get a refund. Doc is wonderful to deal with and has many fne instruments available (including from time to time O'Riordans for much less than the $1525.00 someone just spent on eBay). There may be others out there who do this too. Check around.

I'd like to hear (and try) a Harper. There have been so many varied thoughts about it that I'm interested...