HOLLY vs BOXWOOD tone???

[Oldpiping]

Hi, How would Holy compare to true Boxwood tonaly? I know both are a bit mellower than Ebony (which I like), but usualy Boxwood is also very distinct in sound? How about Holy??? Anything special or similar to boxwood? Thanks, Cheers

[rorybbellows]

I get the impression (not just from this post ) that there's an over expectation on what control the type of wood has on the tone of the instrument.

RORY

[Elmek]

How would Holy compare to true Boxwood tonaly

Well I suppose holy will obviously be the best and tonal quality would come down to who blessed it, local priest, bishop, arch bishop, cardinal or pope

Could say the OP has an 'L' of a problem....

Tis the season to be merry

Its looking festive up here the north (UK) and bl....dy cold so will sign off and go play a couple of chunes - "See amid the winters snow" and "In the bleak midwinter" feel very, very appropriate

John

[Oldpiping]

Come on Guys - you love to make jokes You knew what I mean. Holly, not Holy - sorry for small mistake

I get the impression (not just from this post ) that there's an over expectation on what control the type of wood has on the tone of the instrument.

RORY

So you suggest it is only coincidence that Paddy Keenan, John Mcsherry, Paddy O'Harre, Evertjan't Hart, Barry Kerr ect. all play Boxwood chanters and that some players who used to own ebony chanters, order Holly chanters by same maker...

But you are right, Wood is only a tinny part. Thanks anyway, Cheers

[Uilliam]

Holly is a protected tree and it is mae clan badge so leave it alone.box rocks.

[Cathy Wilde]

Box does indeed rock. Loves me boxwood chanter

As for holly ... ? Hm. I played a holly flute for a while and it didn't seem that wildly different from boxwood. It was light, pretty densely grained, and quite mellow. Holly is a fairly common shrub/tree in the States; that'd be my guess why some North American makers *might* choose it over boxwood.

HOWEVER, I don't know much about holly's "workability" -- that's a major factor, and it could be just as hard to find good straight logs/billets of holly in sufficient size and quality as it is to find workable boxwood. Or maybe it's even harder.

And I have no idea about holly's porosity and stability. Meanwhile ... boxwood does age very prettily. It's also been pretty well time-tested.

But we all know it's the cane that REALLY counts

[boyd]

Gordon Galloway makes holly chanters......I think a few members of this forum play them.

Like anything really....the internet (and maybe CDs too) ain't the way to check on tone.

Go to a tionol or a piping club or whatever and listen hard to people's sets (+ try them if they let you)

There's no substitute for getting up close and personal........


B

[MTGuru]

The Hollywood tone is typically pretension and disdain, with over-conspicuous consumption and a good measure of neurotic insecurity.

Oh, you're all talking about actual holly wood. Never mind.

[Ted]

Holly is a good deal softer than box. A friend made a chanter of it, but found it easily got a lot of dents and scratches in it which did not happen with a boxwood chanter he also had. He prefered box for tone and durability. Holly has been tried with mounts, but should be inpregnated with a polymer to harden it, as it is not very durable untreated.

[joconnor58]

Not a pipe maker and also not an experience piper(yet).

I will say that from experience in my profession dealing with acoustics and materials - the timber will absolutely be a part of the tone of the instrument. The primary factors will be density and mass, but reaction to the humidity and temperature of the room as well. These variables will have certain similarities when the comparing a timber to another example of the same timber. The difference in these variables will be greater when comparing different timbers.

So there exists the high likelihood that many examples of a certain timber will have similar characteristics.

My limited experience in piping combined with my not so limited experience in acoustics and materials leads me to believe, however, that the make up of the wood would have less impact than things like the bore and reed and certainly some other factors

All of it could actually be measured and quantified, but the equipment required isn't found just sitting around. Too bad, could be a very enjoyable study.

[jon1908]

I've made ( in the past) and now own chanters in both Holly and Boxwood so I think I can contribute to this.

My father and I made a couple of chanters in the mid '80s from holly that I felled and seasoned. They were quite quiet and mellow, although that may have been down to my reedmaking at the time. I still have them but they're not great examples of pipemaking so you're not going to see any pics of them! We made a couple of sets of narrow bore drones that were great for playing indoors as they were very mellow. There's also a set of cylindrical bore regulators knocking around somewhere. However I can say that there are differences even between differing pieces of holly. Some pieces are really white (almost ivory looking when polished & lacquered) others are slightly darker. I seem to recall there is even a difference in colour between male and female trees.

It is quite a soft wood and will mark more easily than most other woods used in pipemaking. It does take some time to get a good clean bore, sharp tools and patience are needed otherwise the fibres can raise very easily in a bore, but some fruitwoods are like that. The main drawback is the external appearance - I never found a suitable solution. Wax or shellac based finishes always dulled and became dirty, the best finish I found was a Rustins lacquer but this had a habit of chipping and taking bits of wood with it.

I still play a holly set, although not of my manufacture - it can be seen here ( the full set with purpleheart mounts) http://www.gallowaypipes.com/page3.htm The chanter has a nice bright tone and I'm constantly suprised by it's volume. This isn't 'mellow' at all. It's the nearest thing I have to sounding like a boxwood chanter that isn't actually boxwood. It still suffers from cosmetic issues, dirt etc though

Boxwood is a joy to turn and easily takes a good finish, whether it's wax or shellac based - it will still get dirty but maybe less so than holly?

Still doesn't answer the OP's questions but until you have identical chanters next to each other of the 2 different materials you won't get a definitive.

Jon

[rorybbellows]

but until you have identical chanters next to each other of the 2 different materials you won't get a definitive.

Jon

Even then your not going to get a definitive answer, as we all know there's no such thing as identical chanters. The only definitive answer has to come from the lab, and the guys working there have told us, that the type of wood makes no decernable difference to the tone of the instrument.

RORY