Origin of "slip jig"

[SomecallmeTim]

Would anyone know when the term "slip jig" was first used, or at least written down? I've looked at some of the early (18th century) sources, and while they have some 9/8s, I've never seen them called a "slip jig."

I've used the "search" function but wasn't able to find anything, but if it's there and I missed it please let me know.

Thank you,

somecallmeTim (minutiae fan)

[MarkP]

discussed here briefly...
http://ww.thesession.org/discussions/display/17180

http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/9910

http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/19616

[john]

am i right in thinking that a hop jig is a type of slip jig?

[benhall.1]

am i right in thinking that a hop jig is a type of slip jig?

In all seriousness, I suspect that the best answer is "maybe".

See this discussion for a vague scratch at the surface of what some may think is an analogous point concerning the difference between jigs, single jigs and slides. It seems, in this case, as if, whilst both hop jigs and slip jigs are in 9/8 time, the former will tend to consist more of crotchet-quaver rhythms and the latter will contain more groups of three quavers. The former, sort of "Diddley da-dle dum-dee | dum-dee da-dee diddley" and the latter sort of "diddle-dee ditherum da-dee | diddle-dee diddle-dee diddle-um".

But some people in some places at some times have treated slip jigs and hop jigs as synonymous and others, in different places at different times have said that they're quite distinct tune types. As I implied over in that other discussion, I think the real difference comes when you play the tunes for people to dance to.

[MTGuru]

I'm no expert, and no dancer, but ...

I believe the terms come from the little sliding step or hopping step made possible by the extra time per measure. I also think of it informally as allowing the meter to slip out of the bounds of a standard jig, somewhat like the "airs tordus" (crooked tunes) of québecois music, though I know that's horribly wrong.

Have no idea when the terms arose. My impression is that what we recognize as modern step dance evolved particularly throughout the 19th century, thus post-dating your 18th century sources. Certainly the terms were in use by time of O'Neill, 1903 et seq.

As for the rhythm ... I think of a slip jig as interpreting the 9/8 tune as a normal jig with 6 microbeats, followed by an extra half of 3 microbeats as an extension, and it can be counted in fast 9. Whereas the hop jig approach is strongly in 3, emphasizing more an underlying quarter note plus eighth note feel. The groups of triples are "compressed", and the tempo is slightly faster.

Another conceptualization is to think of a slip jig as an extended double jig, and a hop jig as an extended single jig.

Many 9/8 tunes can be played as either, depending on how you actually execute the underlying triples of the melody in performance, though some melodies will lend themselves more readily than others to hop jig treatment.

[SomecallmeTim]

Thanks for the help. I've been looking through all sorts of 18th century sources and have not found any reference to the term "slip jig", so I'm guessing that your theory is correct MTGuru.

Tim

[cboody]

Well, I have absolutely ZERO support for this thought, but I've always thought of "slip jig" as the 9/8 analogue of the "double jig" and "hop jig" as the 9/8 analogue of "single jig" or maybe "slide." That is stylistic analogue. It says nothing about where the term came from.

[Nanohedron]

Wildly loose translation, maybe? The Irish term for 9/8 tunes - poirt luasctha - translates more or less as "swinging jigs". Swing, slip, I dunno, maybe.

But OTOH, here's as good an explanation for the name as any (from Wikipedia on slip jigs):

Stepdance judges prefer sliding motions with the feet and graceful movements that seem to slip across the floor.

But no suggestion as to when the term came about, whatever the case.

[cboody]

Well, I have absolutely ZERO support for this thought, but I've always thought of "slip jig" as the 9/8 analogue of the "double jig" and "hop jig" as the 9/8 analogue of "single jig" or maybe "slide." That is stylistic analogue. It says nothing about where the term came from.

Oh wonderful. Nothing like getting it backward. Slip Jig like single jig or slide and hop jig like double jig.

I've got to learn to read what I write. (You might just as well say that I write what I read is the same as I read what I write. Apologies to Lewis Carroll.) Maybe I'm the dormouse....

[benhall.1]

Well, I have absolutely ZERO support for this thought, but I've always thought of "slip jig" as the 9/8 analogue of the "double jig" and "hop jig" as the 9/8 analogue of "single jig" or maybe "slide." That is stylistic analogue. It says nothing about where the term came from.

Oh wonderful. Nothing like getting it backward. Slip Jig like single jig or slide and hop jig like double jig.

I've got to learn to read what I write. (You might just as well say that I write what I read is the same as I read what I write. Apologies to Lewis Carroll.) Maybe I'm the dormouse....

Er ... I think you got it right the first time, cboody. If, that is, one agrees with your analogy in the first place.

[Nanohedron]

I think the analogy follows more according to the slip jig. I don't see the hop jig fitting into the double jig/slide analogy discussion, because 1) to me the hop jig is a tense, boingy 3/2-sounding type tune like The Dusty Miller or The Eagle's Whistle; 2) the definition of "hop jig" is hotly debated, so without resolution it's fruitless to include it; and 3) I'm going to be right anyway.

But to continue: compare O'Farrell's Welcome Into Limerick with The Butterfly. The former is comparatively dense, like a double jig. The latter is stretched-out and loping, much like a slide. Which would make it a slip-slide.

I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

[benhall.1]

I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

Nah. I'm still trying to build the calf up.