Copeland Question

Mike J · Post by **Mike J** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 8:47 pm

I have read all of the Copeland reviews I could find on this board and have seen very mixed impressions of the Copelands sound. Some describe it as a very breathy sound while others say the tone is so clear, it is almost flute-like.

Today, I spent most of the day at a local Ren fair and listened to nearly every performance by a group I had come across there a couple of weeks ago. The three person group consisted of a whistler, an acoustic guitar player and someone playing the hammer dulcemer (sp?). The whistler was playing a Copeland high D.

They were playing entirely without electronics and I was only six to ten feet away from the performers for each performance.

The impression I got of the Copeland (though I did not get to play it) was that it had a very clear tone with no breathiness whatsoever. The sound was like a slightly "tinny" version of a flute. The upper register played very nicely with good volume, but without much shrillness until it reached high B. The volume of the lower register was very soft though. I actually had to struggle to hear any note below the first G and, as I said, I was only a few feet away.

My question (finally) is, do different Copelands high D's have very different voices or are the different reviews I have seen simply using using very different words to describe the same sound? Is the sound I heard today, indicitave of the Copeland high D sound or is it just one of several different voices?

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 10:13 pm

I've only heard one Copeland (playing in a session about 9 ft from where I was sitting), but my impressions are pretty much the same as yours.

Whistlepeg · Post by **Whistlepeg** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 10:35 pm

Mike J,
At the S. Florida Ren fest did you see a fellow playing a harp that he had built? If so, he also plays whistle and has a lovely Sindt. (He is a friend of mine from frosty Winnipeg - it is -40 degrees tonight!)
As far as Copelands go,trying to describe the sound of a whisltle is like trying to describe why you think a person is beautiful. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ( or in the case of whistles - in the ear of the player). You really cannot tell if you will like a whistle unless you play it. Copelands like all instruments are not consistent - each one is unique so will play and sound different. Each person has a different idea of what is "breathy", "Clear", "sweet", "loud",
"quiet", "chiffy", "flutelike" etc. Even hearing someone else play, doesn't mean you will enjoy playing it yourself. You may have to buy one, with the option of returning it and buying another if you are not happy with it.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:10 pm

Yes, high Ds are made in brass
and nickel, also silver. Brass is
warmer, nickel brighter. A whistle
can be both flutey and breathy,
and I rather think that's
the Copeland. Individual voicing
does differ in hand made instruments,
and the Copeland is that way,
but I don't think that's
the problem in describing them.
Generally the volume is quite
strong, especially the nickel.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:31 am

Also, the "voices" of a given whistlesmith's products will vary most from key to key.
Then, what most people look for in high whistles seems quite different than what's praised in low whistles.
Think of how much more breathiness is usually appreciated in low D's, and how much the fulness of the bell tone gets important...

janice · Post by **janice** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 7:57 am

I'm actually on my second Copeland(I like them that much)because of the clear tone, and the 'cut' of the sound that they get (I played on Schultz whistles for a while, but switched back to Copeland-I can play more aggressively on them).
The person you heard playing probably was using a lip embocure and not using the top teeth on the fipple(which is generally considered a no-no in the whistle world). But I find that to get the most consistent tone and stability on the Copeland that using my top teeth on the fipple makes a huge difference in terms of volume and control (this is what sax and clarinet players do). They do tend to be quite shrill on the high b but you can slide into it from the a and lesson the effect.

carrie · Post by **carrie** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:02 am

My Copeland high D has a breathy quality, less 'pure' and more 'chiffy' than my Burke. A lovely tone.

Carol

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:12 am

My Copeland high D arrived only a few days ago so I'm still very much coming to terms with it. As for the overall sound, I'm with Carol and Jim here; definitely breathy but not nearly as much as an Overton and not nearly as much as a Copeland low D. I find it a loud and cutting whistle and I agree that it's a bit louder above high B and a bit quieter in the bottom notes, especially the bell note. I like it already for it's responsiveness but it wasn't love at first toot as with my Copleand low D or my Burke high C. But I often come around when i adjust to a whistle so this is a whistle I might very esily come to love.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:13 am

Yes, my favorite high D, especially
the nickel. Also, in brass, the
low D, the Bb and the A.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:45 am

I would call the Copeland chiffy rather than breathy, but that may be a matter of personal definitions. It's not breathy like a Clarke.

But the chiffiness/purity issue is really IMO not what sets the Copeland apart from other whistles. The sound just jumps out of a Copeland -- I don't know any other way to put it. I've never played other whistle has that particular characteristic.

Mike J · Post by **Mike J** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 9:46 am

Thank you everyone for your wounderful input. I love that about this board: everyone is so helpful.

The consensus for the Copeland high D seems to be that it does have a somewhat breathy sound. Jim describes is as "fluty and breathy". Carol describes it as "a breathy quality, less 'pure' and more 'chiffy'". Wombat says "definately breathy". Whereas I heard no breathiness at all. I suspect that what I described as "tinny" is probably what Carol described as "chiffy".

There seems to one of two things going on. Copeland could be turning out high D's with significant sound differences that go beyond the minor variations that are to be expected in handmade insturments. I find this very hard to believe in an instrument as well constructed as the Copeland seems to be, especially with the great reputation the whistle has.

I think that the much more likely explanation is that my as yet untrained ear is simply not yet capable of picking up the fine nuances that the more experienced players here can. Given time, I'll get there.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

BTW. Whistlepeg, no I did not see your harpist friend at the fair. Either he took the day off, or we just missed each other. -40 degrees. Ouch. It was +70 here last night.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 9:52 am

Mike, there is another possibility. Was the whistle amplified in any way? A poorly placed mike or a poor mike might not pick up all the overtones clearly thus giving the impression of greater purity than you would hear had it been amplified better.

Mike J · Post by **Mike J** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:45 am

Electronics can definately have a huge effect of how a performance sounds. The mic quality and placement. The speakers. The equalizer. But, in this case, no electronics of any kind were used.

When I first started with whistles, my goal was to find a nice pure whistle that sounded very flute-like. Everything else was second best. As I've read more about them and listened to CD's and clips, though my imperssions have changed. One of the things I've really learned to appreciate are the many different sounds that different whistles offer.

The issue of breathiness or chiffiness is less important to me than the sound consistancy within a whistle "family". Small variations have to be expected in hand made insturments, but wide swings in sound indicate to me poor quality control. I did not think that could be the case with the Copelands given their very high reputation. However, the apparently disprate reviews and comments had me rather confused.

One point of concern I raised in my initial post that no one here has disputed was the very soft first register especially the D, E and F. These notes were so soft as to be almost inaudible over the other insturments two insturments and neither the acoustic guitar or hammer dulcimer were being played at all loudly. It was clear they were there to accompany the whistle lead and not to compete with it.

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:20 pm

I have not played in sessions or with other instruments, only with other same keyed whistles at workshop type sessions. However, I have both Copeland nickel and brass soprano D, as well as Bflat, G, and Low D. There is a richness of sound, as opposed to pure volume that I note in all of them; but the soprano D Copelands are as loud or louder than any other D whistles (Sindt, Burke, Elfsong, and many others)I have, including the low end.

Philo

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 4:02 pm

The bottom notes are softer than
the top of the second octave, of
course, but they're quite strong
on the Copeland Ds I've played.
I think you may not be able
to extrapolate from this
particular experience. Suggest
you get one! Nickel.