Can you identify this flute?

[paddler]

I've been restoring a stained boxwood and ivory D flute with 4 block mounted keys. I picked it up cheap on eBay, where it was advertised as a fife! It had been neglected for years, but was fundamentally sound, and after a good amount of cleaning, repairing, repadding etc, I'm happy to say that it plays fairly well and looks very nice! It seems to be very nicely made, with a very fine degree of craftsmanship on the keys and body. I'd like to know more about it's origins. It has no maker's marks. I'm assuming its French, based on the cross over G# key, but other than that I don't have much to go on in terms of age or provenance. I was wondering if anything about it looked familiar to any of you.

It plays at A=440, but it seems to play best in tune with itself for me around A=445 or so. In terms of tuning anomalies when at its best, D is ~25-30 cents flat and F# is ~20 cents flat, with all the rest of the notes fairly well in tune. I'm not quite sure how to describe its voice (I guess I should record something). Its D is quite loud and resonant, but the overall tone/voice of the flute doesn't seem particularly well suited to ITM to me. That is not to say that it sounds unpleasant though. It just seems to want to play with a fairly soft voice overall, even though it is not particularly quiet, and the upper octave notes are easy to play but maybe a little thin on tone. Is this what people mean by "sweet"? Perhaps these are normal characteristics of French flutes, but since I've never played a French flute I couldn't say.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Here are some pictures:

[jemtheflute]

Looks colonial to me - those quite fat, bulbous rings on otherwise fairly plain turned joints are typically American, I think. The key style is very French, though not the block mounting. I reckon made in America by a maker with a French heritage or strong influence. Someone like Peloubet, perhaps. Jon C should be along with some thoughts....

[s1m0n]

Are the rings ivory?

[Akiba]

I like the long G# key; makes a lot of sense to me. Those stubby little G# keys always feel crappy to me, and I hear most folks find them tough to handle.

[Denny]

me too! darn hard for anyone to miss that sucker!

[paddler]

Jem, the flute was bought in America, and the rings are quite similar in style, size and shape to those on a boxwood Firth Hall and Pond flute I have, so both of those facts seem to support your theory that it may not be French.

S1m0n, I think they are ivory. They have a nice patena, but they have not yellowed as much as I would expect -- nowhere near as much as the ones on my Firth Hall and Pond flute. They are fairly white, but have taken on a kind of speckled appearance, perhaps from absorbing some of the stain or oil that was used on the flute. Here is a better picture of one. Maybe you can identify the material from this??



Thanks!

Jon

[an seanduine]

A close examination with a 4X loupe should reveal some sort of grain if it is ivory.

Bob

[an seanduine]

And of course one of the CITES diagnostics is to examine under a florescent UV light.

Bob

[paddler]

Thanks for the suggestions Bob! After researching a little, and studying the rings under a magnifying glass, I think they are most likely made of bone. That would be consistent with the kind of discoloration and speckling they have. I even tried a hot pin test, and based on the result of that, plus the look, feel and sound (when tapped together) of the rings I'm sure they aren't plastic. They are quite highly polished and have a kind of translucent surface. The speckling and discoloration appears like small tubes internal to the structure, which is quite consistent with them being bone. I'm relieved that an elephant didn't die for this flute ... well, I guess I'm assuming its not elephant bone!

[LorenzoFlute]

Well, they didn't have plastic in 19th century did they
It might be some kind of horn...
I like the look of stained dark boxwood. Light or dark, I generally don't like the tone though...

[s1m0n]

Well, they didn't have plastic in 19th century did they...

Celluloid dates from 1862; well within the range of 19th Century fluthiery. Substituting for ivory was one of its earliest uses.

Edited: Although any celluloid from that era has likely decayed into an explosive ere now.

[an seanduine]

Doubtful they are celluloid. The early uses were for smaller items, notably buttons. Early celluloid was fairly fragile. When they learned to double treat it with nitric acid (it's basically different forms of 'nitrocellulose) it became a more useful plastic. In the last decade of the 19th century it was beginning to be used as a substitute for ivory in billiard balls. Because of their success in double treating cellulosic materials with nitric acid, they went further and triple processed it. . .leading to the discovery of modern gunpowder. . .hence the brand name "Triple-X". Cordite gets its name, I believe, from the practice of treating cotton cording with nitric. Unless it is treated with flame retardants,celluloid is quite flammable. The original celluloids were rather unstable, and probably wouldn't be in this good of shape. If you think you see 'pores' and not grain, this inclines me to believe you are right in presuming bone. The grain in Ivory is easily seen under UV.

Bob

[Jon C.]

Yes, looks to be a flute made in America, probably a early military band flute. The G key is unusual... The rings look a little to white to be bone, which tends to yellow quite a bit.
The tuning also suggests that it is an old American flute.

Edit: After seeing the close up of the ring, it does look more like bone.

[Dominic Allan]

I'm pretty sure that the ring shown in the close up is not ivory. Those brown flecks are more charcteristic of bone, antler is another possibility ( although bone gets my vote.).

[Peter Duggan]

I like the long G# key; makes a lot of sense to me. Those stubby little G# keys always feel crappy to me, and I hear most folks find them tough to handle.

Have to say it's the only sort that makes sense to me! And I'm also interested to see that French-style OTT action combined with the block mount...

me too! darn hard for anyone to miss that sucker!

Bet you I still could!