Can someone define "sweetness"?

spittin_in_the_wind · Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:16 am

And no, I refuse to run a search! LOL!

I think I know what you all are referring to when you say one whistle is "sweeter" than another, but what does that really mean? Fuller sounding? More chiffy? Less chiffy? I was just wondering!

Robin

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:30 am

I'm willing to bet this is another thing that will be highly subjective

That said, when I use the term "sweet," I mean a clear, rich tone...one that makes you want to hang onto those long notes. Little or no chiff, no "breathiness," no buzz or strongly distracting overtones.

Redwolf

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:19 pm

I'm with you on 'subjectiveness' Wolf. . .

I describe a whistle as 'sweet' if the tone is pure (lack of overtones), not terribly loud especially in the upper register. I don't usually use the word 'rich' with it...to me that impiles a more complex sound than a simple, 'sweet' sound.

I might add that I think sweetness is also a factor of how an instrument plays...lack of backpressure, less breath. I've never consciously thought of that before, but its definitely part of the whistles I call sweet. 'Good natured' might be an apt phrase.

Tartan Ball tonight...so The Cat's getting tarted up. . .no sweetness here tonight! Time to start the prep....bye!

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 2:06 pm

I'm probably one of those more guilty of using the word sweet to describe whistle sound. Of course, I use it because I can't think of another term for what I want to describe. I would say that it's distinct from chiff, full, and, to some extent pure.

Some pure sounding whistles are Rose, Susato, Burke Al, and Silkstone alloy. Of these I would say the first two are sweet sounding, the latter two, not. I would also call the D and E Water Weasels sweet.

Some more examples: I would call the vibrophone sweet, but not the marimba; the pianoforte but not the modern piano; the celesta.

As Redwolf said, definitely subjective, but it's nice to know what some of the frequent contributors mean, should be a very interesting thread.

Blackbeer · Post by **Blackbeer** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 2:16 pm

Sweetness: Dead, lack of charicter, no guts, unable to project emotion, frivolous and safe.

Well you said it was subjective.
I hate sweet.

Tom

madguy · Post by **madguy** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 2:47 pm

Sweetness = Walter Payton.

~Larry

Easily_Deluded_Fool · Post by **Easily_Deluded_Fool** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:03 pm

It's hard to define, but you know when you hear it.

I have a chieftain sop'D that has a 'wide, rich' sound, especially in the lower octave.
Compared to the chieftain's upper octave my Dixon sop' D is sweeter, but narrower!

I know that doesn't help much

elendil · Post by **elendil** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:16 pm

tyghress, i agree with the purity part of your definition, but i think that the presence of at least some overtones, in the technical sense, is actually a good things. lack of overtones results in a thin sound without 'character': maybe another thread? i think i know what you mean. anyway, what you say, to me, applies very well to the sweetheart professional. as i keep mentioning, i've got the laminate version and i'm crazy about it. i just read your extremely interesting thread on it--lots of good information and your analysis of it hit the nail on the head (or as jeeves would say: rem acu tetigisti.). i think the sweet's deserve a lot of credit for developing a remarkable instrument, one with wonderful purity of tone and sweetness, but with character, too.

[ This Message was edited by: tinuviel on 2003-03-01 16:17 ]

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:41 pm

On 2003-03-01 15:16, Blackbeer wrote:
Sweetness: Dead, lack of charicter, no guts, unable to project emotion, frivolous and safe.
Well you said it was subjective.
I hate sweet.

Tom

That's actually why I added "rich" to my definition. I like some overtones (they add character...that's the timbre I keep talking about with my Elfsong). Perhaps there are subcategories to "sweet"...I would define both my O Briain improved and my Elfsong as "pure," but the Elfsong definitely has more tonal character and "expressibility."

Redwolf

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 7:19 pm

I'm mostly with Tyghress here. I might define it concisely as the opposite of "edgy."

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 9:13 pm

Sweet whistle == Elfsong
Chiffy whistle == Serpent Village Smithy
In-between whistle == Brass or Copper Serpent

http://www.serpentmusic.com/music/countydownvs.mp3 to hear the chiffy. Sandy Jasper's site http://www.elfsongwhistles.com to hear the sweet.

I like both voices, but for different sorts of music. And I'm dying to get my hands on my new Busman D!!!

serpent

msheldon · Post by **msheldon** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 9:36 pm

Well, defining "sweetness" is sort of like asking someone to define "green". Go ahead, how would you define it?

I think of sweetness as having a relatively pure tone, with a soft roundness to it. ie, little to no chiff, and no shrillness.

Of my own whistles, I would say my Dixon high-D is the sweetest.

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 11:56 am

Again, the pragmatic answer: green is the electromagnetic radiation in the visible spectrum with a wavelength of 5770-4920 Angstroms .

But again, Lewis Carroll had it right, "When I use a word, it means exactly what I intend it to mean."

_________________
Tyghress
...And I go on, pursuing through the hours,
Another tiger, the one not found in verse.
Jorge Luis Borges

[ This Message was edited by: tyghress on 2003-03-02 12:58 ]

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:08 pm

Yeah, like I said, I'm with Tyg.

Philo

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:21 pm

Oh, and I wanted to post a response to you Tinuviel...I don't want to say that overtones are good or bad...they simply exist or don't. When I'm playing certain tunes and certain tones, a complexity of sound is important: I want the overtones. Other times I look for a purer sound...something that reminds me of a tuning fork rather than an organ pipe.

Just as back pressure isn't good or bad, its very much a matter of taste. For me, I don't like it much in a soprano instrument, but need a certain amount in the lower keys or I run out of breath too soon. Some people really like to 'lay into' a tune (Blackbeer...does this ring true?) and want to push at the instrument.
_________________
Tyghress
...And I go on, pursuing through the hours,
Another tiger, the one not found in verse.
Jorge Luis Borges

[ This Message was edited by: tyghress on 2003-03-02 13:29 ]