whistles compared to recorders

[Whistlepeg]

Often there seems to be a comparison made of recorders and whistles. Especially that a whistle is no good because it sounds too much like a recorder. I am curious. Are whistlers who are making this comparison recorder players? (come on, be brave and admit it!)If so, do you play the recorder as well as you play the whistle? The technique for playing the whistle is very different from the recorder regarding tone production. A good recorder player can make even a Generation sound a lot like a recorder, while a good Irish whistle player will make any whistle sound like a good whistle - as do the Lunasa players.

[peeplj]

I think for the most part the sniping about recorders is tongue-in-cheek.

Recorders and whistles are actually very different instruments, and any attempt to compare them is very much apples to oranges.

Also each has its own music where it is strongest. Generally in early music or classical performance, a whistle is a very poor substitute for a recorder, if it can be made to work at all.

In Irish and other trad musics, a recorder is a poor subsitute for a whistle.

There are a few exceptions to both--I understand Mary Bergin has done some very nice classical stuff on whistle; Emma Christian has done some very deeply traditional stuff on recorder, as well as some lovely singing in the Manx language.

This is my view on it; there will be those who disagree.

Best,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

[Walden]

On 2003-02-27 00:00, peeplj wrote:

Recorders and whistles are actually very different instruments, and any attempt to compare them is very much apples to oranges.

Well, at first glance one would say, they are the same thing, just with different fingering systems, and voices. But that similarity might be a little superficial.

The comparison between the two, might better be seen in terms of the difference between a diatonically fretted old cittern, and a classical Spanish guitar. Both function on the same principle, plucked strings, stopped on a fretboard, but they are indeed vastly different instruments. In skilled hands either one sounds fantastic. But any but the most casual observer knows that they are two different instruments.

The recorder, as you have observed, has, in at least a few instances, been used very successfully in trad music, and the whistle in classical, but recorders are most commonly used in orchestral, solo, or chamber music, whereas the whistle is more commonly used in folk and popular musics, such as Kwela.

Both instruments have their strengths and weaknesses. The lack of easily obtainable sharps and flats on the whistle renders it less useful than recorder in classical and jazz settings. But it shines in diatonic musics.

[Redwolf]

I play both, prefering the recorder for Rennaissance music and the whistle for trad stuff (not just Irish trad). They're very different instruments, and I like them both.

Redwolf

[brewerpaul]

On 2003-02-27 01:21, Redwolf wrote:
I play both, prefering the recorder for Rennaissance music and the whistle for trad stuff (not just Irish trad). They're very different instruments, and I like them both.

Redwolf

Ditto for me. My wife and I are avid members of a Baroque consort which performs from time to time, and we also play at sessions on our whistles. Different, but complimentary instruments-- both wonderful in their own rights.

[serpent]

Bah. Whistles rule! For example, in most biblical history, one reads the (incorrect) translation that a group of early Germanic tribesmen playing recorders, was responsible for the destruction of the walls of Jericho. Not so. A retranslation of the original Aramaic brings about the revelation that it was in fact, a cadre of Picts playing untweaked Generation Bb whistles that was responsible! Can anyone imagine a recorder producing the requisite vibratory harmonics necessary to perform such an Herculean task? Of course not! Recorders are, and will always be, second-class citizens in warfare!

serpent

[peeplj]

Well, if it's <i>warfare</i>, then you <i>really</i> need both War Pipes and War Harps.

You put the harps on the hilltops close to where your enemy is camped. The ghostly sound of the wind moaning over the strings of a war harp will stop anyone from sleeping, and will get them nice and "softened up" mentally for the coming thrashing.

Then the next morning while the fog is still up, you crank up the War Pipes--the more the better, the more out of tune with each other the better--and you don't play tunes, exactly: the goal here is to make a noise like someone left the lid off Hell.

Draw sword, run at opponent, stir well until smooth.

Best,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

[chas]

I think most people use the phrase "sounds like a recorder" to describe a sound I would call sweet. I definitely have some whistles that sound recordery -- we have the entire gamut of recorders from bass to sopranino (and my wife has seen the pic of the sub-contrabass and wants one) -- and I've played whistles to compare with them. Some are definitely reminiscent, but those have their place for certain types of tunes.

Just out of curiosity -- Paul, Redwolf, or anyone else -- can you get two octaves or more from anything below a soprano? I wonder whether my inability is operator error or hardware error.

[DCrom]

On 2003-02-27 08:16, chas wrote:
Just out of curiosity -- Paul, Redwolf, or anyone else -- can you get two octaves or more from anything below a soprano? I wonder whether my inability is operator error or hardware error.

I'm not Paul or Redwolf, but I do play recorder a bit (have the range from sopranino to tenor). I've found that, compared to whistles, the upper notes (from about high G up on a C recorder) are both hard to hit (much harder than on a whistle) and often require different fingering than the same note one octave down. Though I haven't USED them, I have been able to hit high B and C on my C tenor, but they are both ungodly shrill and breath intensive.

Someone more skilled than I on the recorder might do a better job; despite 30+ years playing recorder and only a few months with the whistle I'm probably better with the whistle at this point, just because I put much more time into it.

Start throwing stones now - I have no problem at all with "sounding like a recorder", and would love to have a whistle or two with a nice, pure, tone. It's just the weird fingerings and restricted octave range that put me off, at least for Irish Trad music. (Weird == "much slower than whistle"). I have enough problems keeping up with the music on whistle without throwing baroque cross-fingering into the mix.

Dana

[Walden]

This clip sounds like recorder:
Download from this page.

This clip sounds like whistle:
Download from this page.

[Vinny]

Hey WhistlePeg,

In answer to your question please see the following link:

http://www.chiffandfipple.com/norelco.html

Enjoy and be enlightened!

Vinny

[McHaffie]

Being basically in love with the whistle, I will say this much for recorders.... I go to a lot of Ren. festivals and the like, and I have to admit there are usually many people there playing Barouque (or Ren.) music on recorders that are absolutely fantastic. Sounds great.

However, I must say that it is I, and usually very few others if any at all, that have the people dancing in the streets.

It's simply the difference in what people choose to play, and how well they are able to express it in the indtrument they play I think.

I play along w/ my whistle A LOT w/ the Ren musics and it works just fine if I open it up a bit.

But, of course I admitt to my preference to the trad musics of all kinds and a love of all types of aires, jigs, reels, etc. etc.

Take care,
John

[BillG]

Sounds like "confessions of the rich and famous" -of which I am neither!

BUT I do confess to playing the recorder for much longer than the whistle. Now's my shot at a good question: when I play my favorite genre, Sea Chanties, I find the recorder necessary do to the multi keys they're written in - if I play a Chanty written in G on a G whistle, do I use the same fingering as on a D or must I relearn the fingerings? Playing solo here, if it makes a difference. When in doubt I switch to the chromatic harmonica (which they didn't have then but almost sounds like a Concertina which they did have). Does this make any sense?

If it does, an answer would be great.

Thanx, BilllG

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BillG on 2003-02-27 15:09 ]</font>

[Walden]

On 2003-02-27 15:07, BillG wrote:
Now's my shot at a good question: when I play my favorite genre, Sea Chanties, I find the recorder necessary do to the multi keys they're written in - if I play a Chanty written in G on a G whistle, do I use the same fingering as on a D or must I relearn the fingerings?

Yeah, you can use the same fingerings, you'll just sound in G instead of D.

Well... what do you mean? You are looking at sheet music written in G, and want to know if you can play the fingerings of the D scale? If it is written in #, and you are on a # instrument, you will need to finger it according to the actual notes written, and not the fingerings for a ## scale.

D major scale is

xxxxxx
xxxxxo
xxxxoo
xxxooo
xxoooo
xooooo
etc.
on a D whistle, whereas the same fingering will give you a G major scale on a G whistle.

In D, your keynote is D, the lowest of which is xxxxxx on a D whistle:
___________
___________
___________ (treble clef)
___________
___________
O

On a D whistle, G is played xxxooo

----------
----------
---------- (Treble clef)
----O-----
----------

In G, your keynote is G, the lowest of which is xxxxxx on a G whistle.

So, in using conventional notation, you will need different fingerings for the major scale (or minor, or mixolydian, etc.).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Walden on 2003-02-27 15:36 ]</font>

[ChrisLaughlin]

I really don't know why this discussion is still going on.... recorders are infinately cooler than whistles and chicks dig them immensely.
Chris