Questions on upgrading flute

[Normski]

I would be grateful for your views as to how much would a beginner have to pay to notice a significant difference in tone, all other things being equal, between a Hamilton practice flute and a "proper" flute and for your suggestions as to what make/model would produce such a significant difference at minimal cost.

Many thanks.

[James_Alto]

Hard call. What level are you playing now?

I can't play ITM to convince myself (or anyone) that I really need an Irish flute costing $$$.

Oddly enough though, Francois on this site sent me a PVC flute for review. It requires embouchure
skills (which I have to relearn) as it is a notched flute. It's really hard work - makes my $5k flute seem
easy to play in comparison, only because I'm used to it.

I'm not sure what a proper flute is anymore. Years ago, I would have thought, it was a 'Boehm' flute. Now, I think it's a 'Rudall & Rose' or Pratten style flute. Then, for tone production for a beginner, a fipple whistle or a flauto dolce (soft flute = recorder) is a great way to get into the music during the learning curve.

I just met a Grade 4 student recently. She gave up her flute saying that it was too hard work. You can get a proper Boehm flute, like a Trevor James, Pearl, Yamaha, for less than $300US, second-hand, but you will need someone to check all the keys/pads/springs are patent.

It doesn't hurt to have more than one flute btw. I'm moving over to plastic for my practice flutes - probably doing the opposite to you actually

[plunk111]

Having gone through a LOT of flutes, my considered answer is that it's more YOU than the flute. Granted, I found the Hammy practice flute quite difficult to get a good tone out of, but almost all decent flutes will get a pretty good sound (including the Tipple, btw). My recommendation is to look at the Burns Folk Flute. It is cheap enough to be affordable and plays nearly as well as any other flute and you can get most of your money back if you want to move up or move out. Almost any of the known makers will make a flute that is superb, btw. My current favorites are a Martin Doyle keyless in blackwood and an antique Wm Hall with a John Gallagher headjoint, but I've owned a lot of others. Feel free to PM me if you want specifics.

Pat

[Normski]

Thanks James -perhaps I should have been more clear. By "proper" flute I meant the irish type flutes not the "classical" ones seen in an orchestra.

[m31]

Some expensive flutes may be harder to play and thus harder to produce a nicer tone, than say a cheaper flute, at least for a beginner. A beginner should get an easy blower, forgiving embouchure flute that's middle priced with good resale value. There are definitely a few of these, new or used, more than likely keyless.

[I know nothing about a Hammy's practice flutes.]

[James_Alto]

I see what you mean.

In that case ... would a Doug Tipple (plastic) be out of order?

Against the trend here, I wrote to McCarty's Instruments (USA) and ordered one of their American walnut flutes. These cost ~ US$200 and have a 1 year warranty. I haven't tried it yet, but when it comes, I'd post a review of it.

The waiting lists for open holed Irish flutes are quite something too. I can't say I have an Irish flute at the moment ... I've been trying to decide for the past 6 months lol.

Easyblowing embouchures are indeed important for newcomers - oval and large undercuts are easier. I've seen some nice upgrades for around 600Euros, but that might be out of your budget. Some of their keyed versions sell for thousands! I saw a stunning one by some Irish flutemaker, being sold in one of London's flutes shops. The price tag was so high I daren't even ask for a demo.

Good luck

[Steve Bliven]

Both Doc Jones at the Irish Flute Store and Eric at the Irish Whistle Shop have a range of "pre-owned" instruments, from which you should be able to make a choice based on quality, resale value (in case it doesn't work out for you), ease of play, and price. Contact them for their thoughts on what might be most suitable for you to start on. I don't think either would steer you wrong.

Best wishes.

Steve

[tucson_whistler]

Thanks James -perhaps I should have been more clear. By "proper" flute I meant the irish type flutes not the "classical" ones seen in an orchestra.

fyi, so i think you mean simple-system versus Boehm. simple-system flutes are usually made of wood with just holes for the major scale notes and are used by ITM players. Boehm-style flutes are cyclindrical, have keys for all the notes, are usually made of metal, and are the norm in orchestras.

i don't want to start a debate, but just so you know there's technically no such thing as an "Irish" flute. and "Irish" flute is a system-system flute played by an ITM player. that being said, most system-system flutes nowadays are marketed at ITM players, so they started to be called "Irish flutes." but you can play ITM on antique "German" flutes (i have one) and flutes made in France as well (or, nowadays, in Australia, the US, Brazil, et al).

the best advice i ever heard on this board is to go find a local session and ask others ITM players what they like; they might even let you try a flute. then you can decide what works for you before paying $800-$3500 for a flute. depending on where you live, there might also be shops or flute makers nearby who would let you try one of their flutes.

that being said, i've had 2 Hammy practice flutes and found them quite easy to play, and the tone pretty decent (one was larger, and sounded like a low whistle but the other one sounded more like a standard flute)--i got rid of them actually because they were too easy to play--i was afraid they would encourage me to have a sloppy embouchure. but if you like playing it, there's a keyless Hammy for sale now at a pretty good price over on the used/exchange board...

good luck,
eric

[greenspiderweb]

Hi Norm,

Probably all you need do is change over to a conical bore flute, such as a Dave Copley Delrin, or Rob Forbes Delrin flute, or maybe if you feel you the need for wood, a Burns folk flute here in the US. Or a new or used M&E or Seery flute in Polymer or Delrin (respectively) from Ireland, and you will be set to experience the next level of flute performance for ITM. The Dixon 3 piece polymer flutes or Bleazey wooden flutes (in the UK) will also give you the same change from the cylindrical bore Hammy flute you've been playing. There are others too, that I haven't specifially mentioned, though from my experience and research, not many others are too noteworthy to bother with, unless you want to do your own legwork in testing them and see how they relate to your skills set.

Though, I will say that over a fair trial period, either the Hammy or Tipple flutes will give you much for your money, as your embouchure develops-you can make them sound great, as you put in the time to develop your skills. But if you are looking for an immediate change in tone, you will probably find it in a conical bored flute, which is the norm for most Irish traditional music being played today.

So, it's really up to you, and where you want to go to be at your optimum level in a keyless flute. You will still have to put in the time to make any of them sound good to others. There's more involved than just the basic tones that are the usual in ITM. Much more depends on your skill at playing the music, and the flute is not the deciding factor in tone or playability.

You could easily stay with your Hammy practice flute for a while, provided you are playing all you can, and developing your musical skills for the flute (breathing, timing and tune mastery-all technique that comes from you), so you will have to decide which you need to work on most for where you want to go.

If you need an easier or more comforable reach, then the conical bore flute will most likely give you that, but the rest depends on your embouchure and skills in playing the music. Do you need to "upgrade" your flute? That's your call, but most likely, you just need time in to make the flute and music sound the way you want it to be. There is more in the details, than the flute, to sounding the proper way. Maybe a little easier on the conical bore flute, but not necessarily so. Upgrade when you feel limited in your music, and go from there. Just remember to have fun, as that is what music is all about, unless you're looking to it as your profession. Then it's much more than what you thought it to be, and you must set different requirements and goals to go along with that.

Otherwise, just have a blast!

[kkrell]

Against the trend here, I wrote to McCarty's Instruments (USA) and ordered one of their American walnut flutes. These cost ~ US$200 and have a 1 year warranty. I haven't tried it yet, but when it comes, I'd post a review of it.

Maybe not too late to cancel, and buy something decent for a little more, like a Copley Delrin?

[James_Alto]

I dunno.

I feel sorry for McCarty - he gets some bad (historical) press here, which has never been corrected with accurate user feedback and yet, the irony is, he is a seller with a 100% feedback on a popular auction site, and he offers a 1 year warranty on his flutes. Now the way I see it - some of the comments levied against him, that his flutes are made in Pakistan, seem ridiculous.

For instance - his flutes are made from black walnut or Honduran rosewood. Any primary school kid knows that black walnut is indigenous to North America - not south-east Asia. Equally, he has his own workshop in Utah.

For the cost - his flutes have a tuning slide too.

I get the impression he's just an honest (maybe not vociferous) small flutemaker who makes what he does with integrity. Now I might be wrong, in which case, that won't be $200 well spent. But hey ...the British in me wants to support the underdog

[Cubitt]

Try every flute you can get your hands on. Unless you are having a problem with the flute you have now, you won't know what you are missing until you experience it. This is not just about how the flute sounds, but about response and ease of playing. If there are things you are not getting from your flute, you really won't know if the problem is you or your instrument until you try others. Once you have a notion of how much better you can sound or how much more a flute can do to make the experience of playing more of a pleasure, then you can look to trade up. At that point, if it's important to you, you will spend what it takes, but the money should buy you the flute you need, not a makers name or somebody else's approval.

[skyspirit]

Try every flute you can get your hands on. Unless you are having a problem with the flute you have now, you won't know what you are missing until you experience it. This is not just about how the flute sounds, but about response and ease of playing. If there are things you are not getting from your flute, you really won't know if the problem is you or your instrument until you try others. Once you have a notion of how much better you can sound or how much more a flute can do to make the experience of playing more of a pleasure, then you can look to trade up. At that point, if it's important to you, you will spend what it takes, but the money should buy you the flute you need, not a makers name or somebody else's approval.

IMHO. This is the best advice. I sure am going to do this. I found a teacher who is bringing about 8 flutes that include McGee,Burns, Sweet, and I hope Copley. That way, I can figure out what is best for me.

Thanks Cubitt.

[crookedtune]

Against the trend here, I wrote to McCarty's Instruments (USA) and ordered one of their American walnut flutes. These cost ~ US$200 and have a 1 year warranty. I haven't tried it yet, but when it comes, I'd post a review of it.

The website lists them at $498. http://www.mccartyinstruments.com/pb/wp ... 6d139.html

There are some pretty good, well-proven, flutes in that general range. Did you buy something simpler?

[James_Alto]

That's the one (one of them listed on that page!)

Yes - but I didn't pay that much for it

Can't wait till it comes to try it out.