Anyone ever experience this ?

[weedie]

I was at a friends' place a few weeks ago playing some Music.There was about 6 of us locals and a couple of visitors from up the coast.I was playing Flute..
One of the visitors is a very fine Fluter/Whistler.He's a big,burly kind of a bloke who looks like a cross between a Bulldozer Driver and a Mountain Man Hillbilly....big beard, calloused hands and a gruff manner about him.
Towards the end of the day,he swung his gruffness in my direction,saying that I was not playing with every one and I needed to 'get inside the Music'.. I was'nt at all hurt by this (well,maybe just a little bit !) and took it as constructive criticism..
I was'nt real sure what he was on about at the time,but in the weeks following,after the comments playing on my mind a bit,I began to think he might just be right..
I think what he was on about equates to 'being in the groove' .. 'feelin' it... and assessing my playing of late,it's obvious that sometimes I'm not in the slot..I've been slowing things down a bit and found that this really helps...even on tunes that I've been playing for ages....Being aware of this problem has carried over to my playing of other instruments as well and I can quickly tell if I'm 'falling off' ...
I was a bit uncomfortable about things on the day,but the big fellow was right, and I'm grateful to him for pointing this out to me... brutal delivery and all ...
Has this sort of thing happened to anyone out there ? ... Has it helped ? ..did you cry during the flogging ?? ...

[janmarie]

That isn't that all uncommom. I'm a bit new to ITM and still early in the learning curve but have times when the tunes just flow. I loose that flow around others sometimes ( I get in the way of the tune). It's very frustrating but challenging. One time someone even asked me if I liked the tune I just played ! I was actually struggling with it and probably really needed to play it alot more at home, to internalize it better. But I did love the tune, just wrecked it by trying too hard. I hear others at places less and more experienced than me and see the same thing... not in the "groove." The more advanced players seem to often recognize this and understand people like me are just in the process of getting "into" the tunes. The ones here are very kind mostly. Sounds like you got slapped with a little brutal honesty like I did when asked if I even liked the tune. I didn't cry, just wanted to figure it out, like you have.

[Hotblack]

I know what you mean. I can recognise days when I'm there or thereabouts and other days when I'm way off. Sometimes I have given up playing 'cos it felt that bad. Other days you can't stop me.

[fearfaoin]

I'll tell you what's humbling. Try recording yourself
playing at regular speed. Then slow the recording
down to 3/4 or even 1/2 speed. At that point, you
can really start to feel where you're off on timing.
My High School band teacher knew a professional
jazz musician who used this technique. Even as a
pro, he could always find many places he needed
timing work.

[benhall.1]

In answer to the three questions posed at the end of the OP:

Yes;
Yes; and
Yes

[scoleman]

Towards the end of the day,he swung his gruffness in my direction,saying that I was not playing with every one and I needed to 'get inside the Music'.. I was'nt at all hurt by this (well,maybe just a little bit !) and took it as constructive criticism..

Oh weedie ... you're kind... I probably would have told the jerk to bite me! Normally I'm always trying when I'm playing, especially when playing with others and granted we all have those off days when nothing really sounds right.

I mean, I appreciate suggestions when I ask for them, but not when I'm not just hanging out playing with friends, and I would NEVER say anything like that to someone I didn't know... so, good fluter/whistler or not ... screw em!

just my 2 cents,
Sheryl

[James_Alto]

Well, I guess Mr Hillbillly was just being helpful

I'm not sure what's worse. .... all your friends, refusing to comment about your rhythm, for fear of offending and thus doing a disservice to you as friends, or having a complete stranger bulldozing you off the pedestal of enjoyment!

No one's told me I really suck at playing flute yet. I think, it's probably because, unlike you, I don't know anyone who really plays flute. The most advanced 'books' in the town's only music store, carries, maybe Grade 5 (classical) music tops. They have no Irish traditional music; their jazz music is fake commercial ditties and the only thing they major on is pop music cover songs for every instrument, written by people who don't know how to play flute or whistle (Mel Bay Book series comes to mind).

In that respect, I'm quite happy for people to think: "cor blimey! genius! That guy's a genius player!" when I'm doing the first three notes of 'Three Blind Mice'

Seriously though - you're really fortunate to have a peer set who enjoy and play flute - even more so, that you an experienced flutist willing to offer his feedback. I live in a vacuum, and the only music people play here ... is their hi-fi.

[brewerpaul]

Towards the end of the day,he swung his gruffness in my direction,saying that I was not playing with every one and I needed to 'get inside the Music'.. I was'nt at all hurt by this (well,maybe just a little bit !) and took it as constructive criticism..

Oh weedie ... you're kind... I probably would have told the jerk to bite me! Normally I'm always trying when I'm playing, especially when playing with others and granted we all have those off days when nothing really sounds right.

I mean, I appreciate suggestions when I ask for them, but not when I'm not just hanging out playing with friends, and I would NEVER say anything like that to someone I didn't know... so, good fluter/whistler or not ... screw em!

just my 2 cents,
Sheryl

Ditto, Sheryl
(btw-- where Upstate are you?)

[Redwolf]

Towards the end of the day,he swung his gruffness in my direction,saying that I was not playing with every one and I needed to 'get inside the Music'.. I was'nt at all hurt by this (well,maybe just a little bit !) and took it as constructive criticism..

Oh weedie ... you're kind... I probably would have told the jerk to bite me! Normally I'm always trying when I'm playing, especially when playing with others and granted we all have those off days when nothing really sounds right.

I mean, I appreciate suggestions when I ask for them, but not when I'm not just hanging out playing with friends, and I would NEVER say anything like that to someone I didn't know... so, good fluter/whistler or not ... screw em!

just my 2 cents,
Sheryl

Ditto, Sheryl
(btw-- where Upstate are you?)

I can only say "ditto" as well.

Who says Mr. Gruff is an expert on the music? I've been at sessions where someone joined in, played around at being an expert, and generally made people miserable, but the reality was that this fella wasn't particularly good himself.

Good musicians don't have to be cutting. In fact, the best are really helpful. They help/support other musicians. Usually, if someone's being an asshole, he's compensating for something.

Redwolf

[mutepointe]

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that big burly guys can be misunderstood as being gruff when our normal tone of voice, size, and ruddiness just don't give the initial impression of sweet old lady. At work, I work very hard at trying to appear and sound nice and warm and even smaller when I'm working with little kids or folks who seem hesitant about my size. When my allergies and asthma are bothering me, I've gotten in the habit of explaining to people that I'm not angry or upset when I sigh, I'm just having problems breathing. To add to this, I'm often called into situations for technical assistance. Folks get the idea in their head that I'm important, I'm not, I just happen to have very specialized knowledge and may be of help to them.

I'm not saying that this is the case with weedie but some people are just going to miss cues misinterpret cues or feel intimidated. Every now and then someone who gets to know me says that they used to be afraid of me and then the people who have known me who overhear them say this just laugh and laugh.

[TC]

My similar experience happened about a year ago. I had been attending a regular session for a few months and was just starting to get comfortable and play out a bit. After a tune one of the regulars looked across the circle and said something like "Is everyone in tune?" as she looked straight at me and slid a tuner across the table.
While not as direct as the "hillbilly" approach, she had the same effect. As a result I became very conscious (Ok, borderline obsessive) about playing in tune.
I do think my ear has improved with time. Since then there has been an occasion or two where I wished I had a tuner to pass to the fiddler sitting to my right !

[Hotblack]

.....there has been an occasion or two where I wished I had a tuner to pass to the fiddler sitting to my right !

I've seen many a fiddle tuned with a tuner and then played grossly out of tune. I blame the unfretted neck.

[jim stone]

The best thing is to check one's ego at the door, to the extent one can.
Some of these people are royal sphincters, in my experience, some mean
well, some actually know something. The least productive (most destructive) outcomes
come when my own ego gets engaged.

I think there is sometimes a good deal of impatience and unpleasantness among good Irish
musicians playing in sessions. Sort of goes with the territory, it seems. The crooked
timber of humanity.

I think it is good to accept that there will be some rejection and pain
in serious efforts at excellence, to feel it and, above all, not let it stop you.
Learn what you can.

[highland-piper]

Towards the end of the day,he swung his gruffness in my direction,saying that I was not playing with every one and I needed to 'get inside the Music'..

Sounds like a variation on what my pipe major says at band practice.

It helps a lot more when there's specific criticism -- like you need to hold the ends of the phrases, or you need to hold the long notes longer, or whatever.

It's interesting to note that the failing is nearly always not holding long enough.

[weedie]

Great posts pardners...thanks for your input.Seems as though a few of you have had "the treatment" as well
It's an odd thing to watch Mr Burly Bloke play.His playing is really
sweet.....Timing,dynamics,knowledge of the tune are all there and to have all of this coming from this big bear of a man is kinda weird.I imagine that if anyone was sitting there with their eyes closed and then suddenly opened them to see BB with the Flute...they'd go "no way" ..
I suppose the message could have been delivered with a bit more softening of the blow...but BB is BB and thats about it..
It's a difficult thing to define,this "getting inside the Music".I suppose when you see Musos with their eyes closed,off with the fairies...they're "inside"..I've never been an eyes closed player ,but I know what it's like to be there..The thing now is to be inside all the time.. Is this what we strive for as Musicians ??...It's certainly a nice place to be ..
A few days later my friends said to me "Did you get over the savaging" .. "that guy was a real jerk" (from an Californian in the group! ) and other comments.. As I said before,I was a little bit hurt by things but there was nothing malicious in his comments...just his way.
I guess most people would prefer the "OK,give it to me straight" aproach ..and thats what I got.The delivery could have been nicer ,but if one realises that it was of good intent,then all is good...
BB did me a favour,and the comment "you need to get inside the Music" is a valuable one..and will stick with me for a long time to come.
Us humans are fragile creatures are'nt we