The Monk's Jig

[R Small]

Thanks for the link. Brother Steve is great at explaining things. So the triplet should be somewhere between three even eigth notes and a dotted eigth followed by a sixteenth followed by an eigth. This makes sense. I hear this sometimes. But still sometimes I hear good players play triplets that sound very even to my ears. I'll start paying more attention to this distinction.

[Blaydo]

It's probably harder to pick out when they're played at speed but bradhurley's example played slower gives a clearer picture.

[R Small]

Yes I can hear it clearly in bradhurley's sample.

[NicoMoreno]

FYI, I know it's not *that* close, but Brad is the flute instructor at this year's Piper's Gathering in Vermont.

[StevieJ]

Thanks for the link. Brother Steve is great at explaining things. So the triplet should be somewhere between three even eigth notes and a dotted eigth followed by a sixteenth followed by an eigth. This makes sense. I hear this sometimes. But still sometimes I hear good players play triplets that sound very even to my ears. I'll start paying more attention to this distinction.

Excellent! To quote Bro. Steve again, learn to trust your ears.

[Steve Bliven]

FYI, I know it's not *that* close, but Brad is the flute instructor at this year's Piper's Gathering in Vermont.

Actually, I think he is the flute AND WHISTLE instructor....(along with Andrea Mori)

Best wishes.

Steve

[cunparis]

I'm learning Maid on the Green doing a demo of Blayne Christian's teaching website (it's free if anyone is interested). I thought he played the triplets rather evenly so I came back to this thread and read it again. I then started listening to other recordings and slowing them down using Transcribe! I googled youtube for "Maid on the Green" and the first hit is a performance by Mary Bergin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdJYbOkbetQ

I didn't recognize the first tune as Maid on the Green so I thought "it must be the second one". Searching the comments I read the first was Maid on the Green so I listened more carefully. I can hear some of the tune I learned from Blayne's site but Mary plays it quite differently.

So I slowed it down to see what she's doing and even listening at 33% I still can't figure out exactly what she's doing. She is playing a variation of the song that is quite different then the one I'm learning. So I tried to study her triplets and I notice that some are more even, some have the 2nd note quite a bit shorter than the other two, etc. It sounds really interesting the way she plays it. I can see how these tunes were learned by ear rather than by reading music.

In any case, I try to play with the 2nd note shorter and that does make it sound more interesting.

[bradhurley]

I actually learned that tune from a student of Mary's, and he played it the same way she does -- one element that might be confusing you (apart form the fact that she's playing an Eb whistle) is right at the beginning: she starts with a roll on g in the second octave, and then most standard versions would have you hold the next note (e), but she drops down to the B and then to d instead of holding the e and then going directly to d.

Look at how it's written on The Session:

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1831

The abc for the beginning of The Session's version is gfg e2d|Bee

But Mary plays:gfg eBd|Bee

Actually she plays a roll on that first g, but it's the next three notes that make her approach to this tune so distinctive, it's a little syncopated effect that she's known for.

[bradhurley]

The other thing is that if you listen closely to her you'll see that she never plays it exactly the same way twice, which is part of what makes it so "interesting" as well -- sometimes she drops down to the B but other times she doesn't, it's not repetitive, it's varied, she keeps it changing.

And it's important to realize that she's playing an Eb whistle here but of course using the same fingering as if it was a D whistle -- if you tried to play along you might think she was playing a different tune.

[Mr.Gumby]

It may be worth looking at Bro Steve's site and have a go at Willie Clancy's version of the Maid on the Green

[cunparis]

Look at how it's written on The Session:
Actually she plays a roll on that first g, but it's the next three notes that make her approach to this tune so distinctive,
it's a little syncopated effect that she's known for.

Ok this explains it. Looking at the music, it's quite different from the music I got from Blayne's. I don't know if there are two versions going around or if he simplified it but it's definitely different.

I will try playing the version from The Session and see if I can get closer.

I really like her syncopated effect. That's worth studying a bit.

It may be worth looking at Bro Steve's site and have a go at Willie Clancy's version of the Maid on the Green

This one is similar (same?) as The Session, so I wonder why Blayne's is so different?

Here are the first two bars of each so that you can see the differences (Blayne's on left, Clancy's on right):

[benhall.1]

I actually learned that tune from a student of Mary's, and he played it the same way she does -- one element that might be confusing you (apart form the fact that she's playing an Eb whistle) is right at the beginning: she starts with a roll on g in the second octave, and then most standard versions would have you hold the next note (e), but she drops down to the B and then to d instead of holding the e and then going directly to d.

Look at how it's written on The Session:

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1831

The abc for the beginning of The Session's version is gfg e2d|Bee

But Mary plays:gfg eBd|Bee

Actually she plays a roll on that first g, but it's the next three notes that make her approach to this tune so distinctive, it's a little syncopated effect that she's known for.

Interesting though. Qjuite a lot of the time in that clip from her, she actually is playing the 'standard' version. Sometimes like this: g2g e2d and sometimes like this: g2g ~e2d and at least once like this: ~g3 ~e2d She's doing the absolutely classic thing to do, which is putting in little, and sometimes not so little, variations all over the place, and still managing to always make it sound like the same tune. Brilliant stuff.

[david_h]

So, when playing with other people informally (not using an 'arrangement') do variations like this work together or do they clash ?

[bradhurley]

This one is similar (same?) as The Session, so I wonder why Blayne's is so different?

Blayne's isn't all that different -- it's just another approach to that tune. Put 10 whistle players in a room and ask each of them to play The Maid on the Green, and you'll hear 10 different versions. If you listen to the clip of Willie Clancy playing the tune on Brother Steve's site, you can immediately tell that in fact it's quite different from the version on The Session and is full of wonderful variations.

So, when playing with other people informally (not using an 'arrangement') do variations like this work together or do they clash ?

I think the variations you're hearing from Mary on that clip are subtle enough that they wouldn't clash in a small session, but good players usually listen to each other when playing in a small session and make adjustments rather than each person doing his or her own thing. That said, I think Irish musicians have a much higher tolerance for what you might call "clash" than others: everyone has a different version of the tunes and it's rare for two people who haven't been playing together for years to sit down and play together note for note. In fact, part of the joy of playing with other musicians is to hear how they approach the tune, which is going to be different from how you approach it. If you play with the same person or group of people regularly, things tend to come together more and you may get a more cohesive sound, but uniformity is not the goal in Irish music.

[Mr.Gumby]

That said, I think Irish musicians have a much higher tolerance for what you might call "clash" than others: everyone has a different version of the tunes and it's rare for two people who haven't been playing together for years to sit down and play together note for note.

Not sure about tolerance to real clashes though. I think most good musicians are quite adaptable and any experienced musician will have encountered different versions of tunes so it's easy to adapt on the fly to the version of the people you're playing with. Some of us will have often encountered a serious(-ish) clash in a tune, adapt to the version of the the other player, only to find the same clash occurring again because the other man/woman has adapted your own version. Always a hilarious occurrence, usually when the phrase come round the next time, things will have settled one way or the other.