Goretex bag for uilleann pipes

[Juan Pablo Plata]

Hi pipers,

I need a new bag, and Andreas Rogge can offer now new goretex bags. I know that a good leather bag should be airtight and lasts a lot of years and all of that (I used to play L&M bag).
What would you do? Benefits? (supposedly they are airtight and require zero maintenance). Something bad about them? Thanks.

[Jose' Scotte' Este']

I am not sure how Andreas is constructing his gortex bags, but I have used them on GHB and found them to be somewhat slippery and light, so that they are somewhat difficult to grip with the arm/elbow, and they do not provide much structural support of anything once they are full. I am not sure what the advantage of a gortex bag would be for uilleann pipes, and my understanding of their advantage for GHB is their "breathability", that is their ability to allow moisture, but not air to escape. I certainly prefer the look, feel, weight and smell of a good leather bag, like the L&M.

[TheSilverSpear]

Don't know about Gore-Tex bags, but I spend a lot of my life wearing Gore-Tex and after three or four years of heavy use, it's not completely watertight anymore.

[fiddlerwill]

I use them exclusively for GHB, i have one bag still airtight and being played thats over 15yrs old.

but not very breathable! thats why folk use water traps etc.
Light, no messing about, but as regards UP, I just use leather.

[glasba]

IMHO ... We are still background in thinking on this planet. It is a bit of " An old wives tale " that leather is the best. It is just that most people are used of Leather.

Already Many great pipers prefers to use Nonleather bags: John Mcsherry, Todd Denman, Paddy Keenan, ect. ect. It's matter of taste also of course.

In case of Andreas Rogge - his Nonleather bag is made of great manmade material - made by Ross (Australia); he offers these bags besides his usual leather bags. As I understand, the material is kind of Nylon/Nypren type, developed specialy for Highland pipes. Andreas makes stocks if there is need. This bag don't need any seasoning & is perfectly 100 % airtight. Material is thin and light but very strong and it looks stronger and nicer then most vinyls. When I bought it from him, I immediatly like it much more then few leather ones I tried. This material is not slippery and the shape and size is same as leather Rogge bags.

There are already many Earth&Animal friendly materials on this planet, that can/will replace leather & make great bag and bellows - it is just a matter of research, but right now nobody cares yet. But, Anyway in near future it will happen ... Best, AA

[Jeff Cullen]

There are already many Earth&Animal friendly materials on this planet, that can/will replace leather & make great bag and bellows - it is just a matter of research, but right now nobody cares yet. But, Anyway in near future it will happen ...

Not to be disruptive or argumentative....I just thought I would ask what seems like the obvious question and also state my experience with synthetic bags.

1. When the bag is no long useable and in need of replacement (for whatever reason - sold to a different piper and via age and wear), is the synthetic bag biodegradeable? The leather one is. Also, leather is an animal product but is available because cows are slaughtered for their meat. Doesn't it make sense to use the entire animal rather than discard or just biodegrade the non-edible parts?

2. In highland piping, it isn't just an old wives tale that leather is better. I've used every pipe bag material available and the tone produced by highland pipes really is fuller and richer with sheepskin over synthetic (and richer than cow hide). This is my experience after 40 years of highland piping and having restored over 40 sets of vintage highland pipes trying many different setups. I don't know if there would be any tonal difference for Uilleann pipes though....I would have to compare the same set of pipes with different bag setups...the ear is the final judge.

I do respect your opinion, which is equally valid and certainly more valid for you. Do what gives you the best sound.

[PJ]

...is the synthetic bag biodegradeable? The leather one is...

Yes but there's so much Chromium used in the tanning process, I'm not sure I'd put it in my compost bin.

[Jeff Cullen]

I just googled Hexavalent Chromium... Holy Crap!

Hexavalent chromium is recognized as a human carcinogen via inhalation

Are sheepskin bags chrome tanned? OMG....I might take up drums. Maybe I'll watch "Erin Brockovich" tonight.

[PJ]

Most old commercial tanneries are environmental disaster areas because of the chrome and other chemicals used in the tanning process. Leather tanning is very strictly regulated these days.

[pancelticpiper]

I used L&M "elkhide" bags on my Highland pipes from the 1970s until 2005 when I switched to a Ross GoreTex bag for a couple years. Now it's back to L&M.

I've only used MacHarg "elkhide" bags on my uilleann pipes, from the 70s till now.

GoreTex bags feel very strange under the arm. They're like a limp rag, thin and flimsy. When blown up they feel like you're squeezing a balloon in your armpit.

But they work fine. I got used to mine and was able to get clean strikeins and cutoffs (very important in Highland Pipe Band playing). Many pipers can't ever get clean cutoffs with GoreTex bags so drone valves were invented.

On my Scottish smallpipes I use a GoreTex bag. What helps the feel of it is that I have a bagcover of rather thick velvet which gives the illusion of substance to the bag.

I suspect on uilleann pipes they would work fine and it would just be a matter of getting used to the feel.