Low D Narrow Bore recommendations

[sfwhistle]

I asked this question at the end of the Dixon low D narrow bore thread so I think it got lost. I would appreciate any advice on a low D narrow bore whistle. I have small hands and would rather not use the piper's grip. The Copeland in the photo on the Dixon thread looks great, but I think my chances of getting a Copeland are nil. I have the WD Sweet Onyx and I love the sound. However, I'm struggling with the stretch between the 5th and 6th finger.

Maybe I'm just not supposed to play a low D, but I'd like to find out for sure. Thanks.

[Feadoggie]

Here are a couple of thoughts to consider.

I would appreciate any advice on a low D narrow bore whistle.

I don't know what you mean by "narrow bore" in referring to a low D. A narrow bore would lengthen the stretch (but only marginally) and it would generally make the lower notes less strong. The only narrow bore low D's I play are actually low A's. Are you perhaps referring to a conical bore low D instead? The conical bore alows for smaller lower hand holes and they end up closer together as a result.

I have small hands and would rather not use the piper's grip.

The piper's grip is really a basic whistle playing technique. It makes the world of low whistles accessible to small handed players. And it is just plain more comfortable even if you do not have small hands. It does take some time to get used to it but it is a very natural method once you get the hang of it. Your fingers can be held flatter and that reduces tension in your hands overall. It is well worth trying. I would encourage you to give it a go. You will do well with it I am sure.

I think my chances of getting a Copeland are nil.

Michael Copeland is still making whistles. Contact him if you want one of his low D's.

I have the WD Sweet Onyx and I love the sound. However, I'm struggling with the stretch between the 5th and 6th finger.

The Sweetheart low D's are among the least challenging low D's on the market for hand size and stretch. If you can't comfortably cover the LH2 and LH3 holes then try the piper's grip. That's what it is there for. That's the problem it solves.

One other thing you could try is a low D with rotating holes like a Burke. It is rather surprising how much rotating the lowest hole makes playing a low D more comfortable. I have issues generally with fixed position offset holes. They are usually offset for someone else's grip, not mine. But being able to rotate the lowest hole allows you to customize the hole offset to your grip and hand size.

Maybe I'm just not supposed to play a low D, but I'd like to find out for sure.

I have run into folks that cannot play a low D. It is usually a matter of the diameter of the fingers though and not the length of the fingers so that the holes can't be sealed. But most of us can play the low D. If we weren't meant to play the low D, god wouldn't have given us fingers with multiple joints and the concept of the piper's grip. Try the piper's grip on your Onyx. It's not such a drastic exercise.

Hope that helps.

Feadoggie

[sfwhistle]

Thanks, Feadoggie. You're right. Because of the Dixon thread, I meant tapered bore. You've given me great advice and I will try to give the piper's grip a try. It's really my thumbs that are the problem.

How would I get in touch with Michael Copeland?

[sfwhistle]

It's helps to read. I found Michael Copeland's contact info. I'll email him about a low d.

[Steve Bliven]

I have small hands and would rather not use the piper's grip.

For what it's worth, I use the pipers' grip on all my whistles from high d on down to Low D. It really isn't that hard to get used to and it makes a playing a range of whistle sizes much simpler. It's just different-and like all things different, it takes a while to get comfortable.

Best wishes.

Steve

[JTC111]

I meant tapered bore.

Tapered bore whistles can present other difficulties. I have a Copeland low F and of all the whistles I own it's the most difficult to play because the B2 hole, being the largest in diameter and down towards the thin end of the whistle, goes pretty deep into the sides. That makes it very difficult for me to get a good seal unless I concentrate on pressing that finger down harder than I normally would. It may just be that my fingers aren't suited for that whistle and your experience may be better but I figured I'd throw that out there for whatever value it may have. Good luck.

[wyodeb]

I have skinny fingers and smaller hands. The ONYX is comfortable for me to play. Sometimes I do rotate the bottom section a little bit to the right to make it easier. I'm not sure you'll find anything with a smaller reach.

Deb

[Thomaston]

Like others have said, piper's grip is best, and not that difficult once you're used to it. But if you can't get the hang of it, another option is a keyed low D, which usually has keyed for the ring fingers of both hands. Susato makes them, and if $$$ is no concern, check out Doc Jones' Irish Flute Store. He currently has listed for $475 a Sweetheart Resonance blackwood low D with keys. I'd give you a direct link, but I'm typing on a touch screen tablet and can't copy and paste.

[DrPhill]

I have small hands and would rather not use the piper's grip. The Copeland in the photo on the Dixon thread looks great (................)

First off, I second the recommendations to learn the piper's grip. It is well worth it. I use it on all my low D whistles. That said, I am really posting as I am puzzled: I am not sure what leads you to believe the Copeland would be any easier to play without using the piper's grip. The picture that you refer to shows that, within a very small margin of error, the holes on all but one of those low D whistles have about the same spacing. The exception being the Bleazey. I can just manage to play the Bleazey with my finger pads (rather than piper's grip), but it feels a little odd, uncomfortable and unreliable. I cannot play any of the others without piper's grip - the B2/B3 stretch defeats me on them all.

[Feadoggie]

How would I get in touch with Michael Copeland?

There is a sticky thread devoted to Michael at the top page of the forum. But I'd suggest you come to terms with piper's grip on your Onyx before moving on to a Copeland. As DrPhill suggests, physics determines where a hole can be placed and there won't be enourmous variations between holes size and placement for a given key of whistle without it playing poorly. Unless of course some one has figured out how to violate that whole time , space, Newtonian, gravitational.. I guess it's all relative.

Tapered bore whistles can present other difficulties. I have a Copeland low F and of all the whistles I own it's the most difficult to play because the B2 hole, being the largest in diameter and down towards the thin end of the whistle, goes pretty deep into the sides. That makes it very difficult for me to get a good seal unless I concentrate on pressing that finger down harder than I normally would. It may just be that my fingers aren't suited for that whistle and your experience may be better but I figured I'd throw that out there for whatever value it may have. Good luck.

JTC111, I'd like to see your grip to see if we can help you out. You shouldn't be having any problems with one of Michael's whistles. I understand what you have described but I also have a fair amount of experience with Copeland whistles and never met anyone that had a similar concern. Anyone else had this issue?

Feadoggie

[ecohawk]

As you would expect Feadoggie has given you a sage-like well constructed answer. I don't usually speak, on this forum, in an authoritative voice, since I'm humbled at the breadth of knowledge herein, but not using piper's grip to play low whistles will limit your ability to ever excel at playing them.

I have gigantic hands. XL gloves, size 13 ring 6'4 265 lbs. I can't play any whistle above high D and can only play a few specific high d's since tight hole spacing is a deal breaker for me. I have played an unkeyed tenor rec**der for years and I can make the stretch well enough to "play" several different low D whistles but you will not be able to play cleanly or at speed without piper's grip. Period, space, space. It is not difficult. While I haven't made the leap that Steve Bliven has, I play everything below low, or mezzo or alto (hell, whatever it is called) A using piper's grip. It took me about 20 hours of playing to get comfortable with it and about another 20 hours to develop the necessary muscle memory and I've never looked back. And I'm 58 years old with arthritic fingers.

Don't limit yourself to a specific instrument for lack of technique.

[MTGuru]

Well said, ecohawk.

I sometimes get frustrated by the fuss made regarding piper's grip. I suppose that giving it a scary name like "piper's grip" makes it sound ... scary.

I hereby declare that on the Chiffboard, piper's grip will be henceforth be referred to as Easy Grip. Maybe Super-Duper Easy Grip. Problem solved!

Seriously ... If on whistle X you're having trouble covering the bottom holes because of the spacing, just rotate your hand a bit until you can, you know, cover the bottom holes. Use the middle joints of fingers B1 and B2 if you have to. Voilà. Really, it's as simple as that.

[DrPhill]

Well said, ecohawk.

I sometimes get frustrated by the fuss made regarding piper's grip. I suppose that giving it a scary name like "piper's grip" makes it sound ... scary.

I hereby declare that on the Chiffboard, piper's grip will be henceforth be referred to as Easy Grip. Maybe Super-Duper Easy Grip. Problem solved!

Seriously ... If on whistle X you're having trouble covering the bottom holes because of the spacing, just rotate your hand a bit until you can, you know, cover the bottom holes. Use the middle joints of fingers B1 and B2 if you have to. Voilà. Really, it's as simple as that.

Perhaps you ought to write a post about how to do piper's grip step by step.

[ecohawk]

Thanks for sharing that link/thread DrPhill, it is where I learned the Easy Grip.

I had forgotten that MTGuru wrote it. Sorry MT for not giving you "props". Old age you know.

Anyway, do this.

[Greg Connor]

I've heard that the Sweetheart Low D is one of the easiest to finger, so you might already have the best whistle.

The Piper's Grip is nothing to be afraid of. Once you get used to it, you don't even think about it.