Questions about venting.

[Ketil]

Hi. I am playing my 6 keyed M&E ebonite and I have discovered (got some tips here) that I get a fuller and more nicely pitched E tone when venting the Eb key.

However, I find it hard to get my fingers working with me, especially on fast tunes. Do you guys vent EVERY time you play the E note. Do you vent other keys to improve tone and pitch?

I have no teachers around (Norway) and everything I learn I pick up from the web. Could anyone just walk me through the venting technique, please?

Thanks, Ketil

[Sigurthr]

I vent mostly for tuning, so I don't have to lip up and down as much. That being said... yes I vent E with the Eb key every time, and blow deeply downward to correct the raise in pitch from the venting (unless I'm on a flute that has a flat E, which hasn't been the case yet). I don't go as far as venting F keys for anything other than F# (which tends to be flat without venting), but I do generally vent often.

The only advice I can offer is this: vent where able if it improves tone without sacrificing tuning (unless you can easily correct for the tuning changes). If venting a certain way (or on a certain note) is going to destroy your finger technique for a certain passage don't worry about it unless absolutely necessary for tuning. Generally I find listeners don't notice a veiled note if the note lasts less than 1/3 of a second, but that is very subjective as I'm sure other flute players who are experienced will notice it!

[Ketil]

Thanks!
I have been working a bit on the free lesson on oaim.ie (fair haired boy) and notice that Majbella Bartley seems to vent both the Eb key and the short F.

Do you just keep the Eb key vented all the time (except of course the D) or do you hit it everytime you play the E note.

I find I am cramping up in my right pinky, but that is probably just lack of practise and muscle memory.

I am guessing that using the right ring finger is just a shortcut to a bad habit, right?

[Sigurthr]

I vent the Eb key for everything except Fnat and D (and foot notes of course), it is a carried over habit from Böhm flute playing. I would say that using R3 is a shortcut to bad habit, yes lol. I get the cramping too, most of the time because my hands are tired or because I'm simply pushing too hard, it's just a reminder to take a break (as it usually sets in for me after an hour or two).

[eskin]

On my antique 1857 Metzler, I need to vent the E and F# for both tuning and tone quality. Effect is minimal on every other note.

[jemtheflute]

Your best course of action is to get hold of one or more proper 8-key flute fingering charts. Rick Wilson's website has several facsimile period ones plus his own extensive (though not comprehensive) compilation chart. Pre-internet, I learnt 8-key using the chart in Otto Langey's Boosey & Hawkes flute tutor book - 2nd hand copies can be found on eBay/Amazon periodically, or I believe a special-order scanned copy is available (at a price) from Boosey themselves (it is out of print). Several other systems are charted in Langey, and of course Rockstro gives extensive fingerings for many systems.

All that said, and these comments applying to antique flutes or accurate copies, not necessarily to modern makers' tuning-modified flutes for ITM (where the C#, F# and E holes in particular are different from period originals), the main ones are:

Vent the Eb key for everything that does not require it to be closed (as for Bohm flute), save perhaps 2nd 8ve E (which is often sharp on 8-keyers if the key is vented).

In particular, the low E is much strengthened and brought up to pitch by venting the Eb - it will be flat and weak if you don't.

For F#, vent one or other F natural key, according to which is more convenient in context (same principles as for F natural). Also be sure to vent Eb.

For (all-fingers-off) open C# at the top of the 1st 8ve, vent the C key - it will be flat and weak else. On many Pratten type flutes, C# at the top of the 2nd 8ve may be good thus too, but on most Rudall types you need to use the (very convenient) cross-fingering (oxx xoo,).

For high D (start 3rd 8ve) (oxx ooo,), vent Eb - it can make a very noticeable difference, as it can to C natural cross-fingerings in both 1st and 2nd 8ves

Those are the main, standard, expected-by-the-maker vented fingerings. Experimentation with them, especially using a tuner, will soon demonstrate their advantages in strength, intonation and tone-quality. Venting is important, even vital on sustained and accented notes but you can often miss it out in fast passage-work where to use it might be awkward and detract from the flow (though of course, with practice and familiarity you can get a great deal in).

I won't go into 3rd 8ve fingerings here as they are, by definition, assisted harmonics of lower notes that all make use of venting (both of keyed and fingered holes) just to get them to sound, leave alone worrying about tone quality, strength and intonation. The "keep Eb open" rule goes out the window. In any case, most notes have several alternative possibilities which may work differently on different flutes and/or have special applications (cf Rockstro's info and Wilson's composite chart).

[benhall.1]

Vent the Eb key for everything that does not require it to be closed (as for Bohm flute), save perhaps 2nd 8ve Eb (which is often sharp on 8-keyers if the key is vented).

A little clarification, Mr TheFlute, please. Do you in fact mean "second octave E natural"?

[jemtheflute]

Indeed. Corrected above. Thankyou, Mr. Proof Reader/Moderator.

I should also add, in fuller response to the OP, most ITM players don't bother with key-venting at all, notwithstanding their flutes may need it and they may even whinge about tuning issues and weak low Es that would easily be corrected by venting. So don't feel obliged to the learn it - you'll be in plenty of illustrious company if you don't!

[Ketil]

Thank you, good people!
Seems I have some work to do in getting my fingers accustomed to this. But it does really work:-). The notes sound better.

Now my only consern is the clickety sound of the Eb key closing. Any tips on minimizing this?

Ketil

[jemtheflute]

Now my only consern is the clickety sound of the Eb key closing. Any tips on minimizing this?

First establish exactly why it is clicking - make a close examination of the action of the key from all angles. See if any metal part is hitting anything it should not. It may need minor adjustment, or perhaps the pad has gone a bit hard.

[dunnp]

I've been interested in this topic lately as well and find I go back and forth on it. I find that on the antiques I have about me now venting does improve the tone quality and tuning of the E and F sharp and natural and of some other notes depending on the flute at the normal pressure, but I can get the same tone quality and tuning by changing my embouchre on these notes. In other words if you play the E vented and and then unvented by a change in your embouchre you should be able to get the same quality of tone and tuning.

I can't think of an older flute player in Irish traditional music that vented the key though maybe some one can point us to an exception. Also among the best more modern players venting is uncommon though I can think of some exceptions, Nial Keegan for instance and Calum Stewart and I'm sure there are more {perhaps a list we should make}.

I find its a nice effect rather than a necessity though it's not that difficult to get your head around. Spend a good few hours thinking about it and you should be able to do it fairly quickly.

Remember WWMMD, What would Matt Molloy do. Though perhaps he sometimes vents.

[Ketil]

I have spent a few hours on this now and between the frustration of my fingers going haywire and quite a few Eb's where D's should be I find that the E both low and high are significantly stronger and more in pitch when venting. Not so much the other ones. Seems the F sharp sound "good enough" without venting.

My decision now is wether to keep the Eb key vented on all notes OR learn to just vent it whenever I hit the E?

The biggest issue is getting the flow when E's and D's are played rapidly. I feel my playing progress has been taken huge steps backwards, but the strong and in tune E makes it worth it! I think...

Ketil