Do you prefer to play "Loosy Goosy" or "Mighty Tighty"?

[rosehebrew]

Just asking for some thoughts on this.
I have been playing with different bands/people for many years off an on and have noticed that people really do have different ways that they view and practice music. Some people have the goal of making it in their terms, "very tight" and others like me value the more edgy, seat of the pants, emotional "getting into it" approach which tends to make the tight people really agitated. Last year we were approached by a local music duo that commented on how "tight" that set was but I did not see that as a big compliment....hence MY way of looking at music verses THEIR way. Their music kind of was not my favorite because it seemed to me to be a little too structured and sounded to contrived for my taste. I am just curious to hear other whistlers opinion on this maybe controversial subject. Just to clarify, I do not play ITM much and never in public and my roots are from country/soul/blues so maybe that is why I approach it like I do.

How do you play, why, and where do you think it comes from?

[benhall.1]

My goal on whistle is to play as tight as I possibly can. This is mainly because my natural tendency is to play loose on whistle, so if I can counteract that a bit, then I stand a chance of ending up with something I'm happy with. My normal goal (but not always) on fiddle is to play loose. This is because, as you suggest is your position too, I like to live dangerously - 'on the edge'. so, I like to play it way differently each time. (Actually, thinking about it, I do that on whistle too, just in a different way. )

But there seems to be more than one aspect to your question. First, there's one's style of playing - is it "loose"? Or "on the edge"? Then there's the question of band arrangements and how "tight" and pre-ordained they might be. In a band situation, I just can't play with the sort of people who want everything pre-planned and fixed. Even in an arranged version of something, I like to have lots of room to play about with things. But you're right - that sort of thing makes the control freak type of band participant very uneasy, to say the least. So, they don't like playing in bands with me. So everyone's happy.

I can think of a contrasting pair of very famous bands to illustrate my point. (And I'm aware that this may also be venturing into dangerous territory. Ah well. ) I really like the arrangements and the slickness of Dervish. But it does seem pre-ordained. Woe betide anyone who steps out of line. This makes for reliably great music (IMO and when they're not going in for Eurovision ). OTOH, go to an Altan gig - those people just play about with everything. It's never going to be the same twice, and the sense of fun and energy at a live Altan gig is stunning. I'm not saying one is better than the other, and I'm only talking about live performance, not recordings. But the approach of the two bands in a live situation is noticeably different.

And I still haven't really answered your questions ... I might try again later ...

[JTC111]

Last year we were approached by a local music duo that commented on how "tight" that set was but I did not see that as a big compliment....

I'm not sure they meant that the way you interpreted it. I've heard that phrase a lot and I've used it myself and the meaning has always been complimentary regarding the ability of a group to play well together ...good timing, good harmonies, good synchronization, etc. Its opposite would be "sloppy." Would you find it complimentary is someone came up and said you guys were "sloppy?" I don't know of any musical genre where "sloppy" is preferred.

The phrase has also been adopted by the urban/hip-hop music community and, as far as I can tell, the meaning is pretty much the same and is complimentary there as well.

In the end, music and anything we say about it is very subjective. Someone came up to you and complimented you. They didn't have to say a word to you; they were under no obligation to do so. But they decided to go out of their way to show a bit of appreciation. I'm not sure why that deserves anything other than appreciation on your part.

[technowhistle]

Hold it loose, play it tight.

[Emrys]

I love to practice--it's kindof a sacred space for me, so this helps with getting different technical things down. However, once I've mastered the technical stuff, then I love to fly free. For me, getting technically good on my instrument is the foundation for everything else.

As someone with a heavy-duty classical background, for the first 30 years... and then lots of Early Music, world music, and improvisation for the next 30 years, I really appreciate both approaches. As a professional piano tuner, I often hear people say that they can't really tell if something is in tune. But that's not my experience (otherwise, why would they pay me the big bucks??) I think people (the audience) can definitely tell when it SOUNDS GOOD, and playing out of tune, or out of sync generally does not.

My latest approach to making music (specifically getting decent on the flute, now that I am half-way decent on the whistle) is the following. I went through my entire repertoire of tunes and pieces (including my fav classical stuff, which is all Bach) and made a list. There's about 100 of them. I have this thing about wanting to learn to play equally well in every key (on the flute, natch, since the whistle handles that for you), so next I spent a few months auditioning the tunes and finding out which keys sounded the best for each tune (and felt the best on the instrument). Now, what I do, is just keep playing through the tunes in their key-matched cycle, until I get to the point where I've learned them. Also, I'm memorizing not only the notes (I never play from music anymore) but also their names and keys, so I can depend on calling them up effortlessly. Because all this is really in preparation for being able to use the tunes as a template, so that I can improvise on them, as well as play them straight out. Lots of fun!

[rosehebrew]

In the end, music and anything we say about it is very subjective. Someone came up to you and complimented you. They didn't have to say a word to you; they were under no obligation to do so. But they decided to go out of their way to show a bit of appreciation. I'm not sure why that deserves anything other than appreciation on your part.

You are so right JTC111. Sorry I did not make myself more clear on that point. I did appreciate their comments very much. They are two very nice people that are competent musicians that take what they do seriously and are in high demand.
I guess what I am trying to say it is a contrast to the way I felt when a pro drummer that worked with us for a time said he was happy to get to work with people that had soul in their music. It is just that the later comment made me much happier and it may have been the other way around if he had said that to the former couple mentioned. They may have dismissed it as nothing. I guess I should just call it personal musical values and goals....maybe what others see as style.
I always compliment other musicians when I can honestly do so because everybody needs encouragement. I have though been urged to encourage other (in this particular case a vocalist that does not put in a very big effort) band members when they did not really have anything to be complimented on so that is a tough one. I refuse to patronize anybody in that way. If I give a compliment I mean it, if not I think that would be an insult.

[osage59]

Me? Mighty Goosey!

[emmdee]

Well, I played with the same band for 12 years. In that time, we had 10 different members, but never more than 5 in the band, if you see what I mean. As far as arrangements go, for me, you have to hit your mark. Come in on the right beat, drop out on the right beat, otherwise the structure of the arrangement goes out the window and you end up with what the Scots call "a rammy". In other words, a mess.

I was quite happy to let my actual parts/riffs evolve over time, and was happy to let anyone else do so musically, but I was never happy for them to mess about with the structure.

It was a mainly song based band, but we did tunes sets as well.
m.d.

[JTC111]

I guess what I am trying to say it is a contrast to the way I felt when a pro drummer that worked with us for a time said he was happy to get to work with people that had soul in their music.

Being "tight" and having "soul" are in no way musically exclusive. Honestly Rose, I really think you're defining "tight" incorrectly. "Tight" doesn't mean stiff or emotionless or soulless. There's no way that intimating a band wasn't "tight" can be construed as a compliment.

A couple of hours later...
I've been thinking about the word "tight." In other areas it can have a negative connotation:
In baseball, if someone has a "tight swing" they're probably getting full extension of the arms.
Someone can be "tight with their money.
In sex... oh, never mind sex; we got whistles.

But in music, for whatever reason, the word takes on not just a new meaning, but the opposite connotation. I'm gonna make an educated guess and say it may have been added to the musical nomenclature by jazz musicians. I say this based solely on having heard some of the old jazz guys use the expression on occasion (and I can't imagine Stephen Foster saying it ).
[It just occurred to me to search Amazon.com for "tight" under jazz music. Quite a few albums use the word in what appears to be the context I've described.]

Musically in the past, I believe you could only use the term to describe a musical act of more than one person. I don't think you could describe a solo performer as "tight." But these days I'm hearing the word used quite a bit by kids. It's still a positive, but, as I think about it, it's not exclusive to music. Kids will describe haircuts, clothes, sneakers, all manner of things, as "tight."

Anywho... if I were you, I'd take it to mean that you guys were firing on all cylinders. You were in synch, in tune, folks knew their parts well, the harmonies were rich, etc. So good job on that! ...and stay tight!

[Trout Mask]

Neither ..... I'm a 'Hokey Cokey' man to the core

[hoopy mike]

Neither ..... I'm a 'Hokey Cokey' man to the core

Ah, the butcher's song.

[Guyon]

After about three pints, I play a little tight.

[mutepointe]

I come from a folk music background. I believe in a structure to a song but that there is freedom to where you go inside that structure, and that's even more important when you are playing with a group. During practice is the time to experiment and be loosy goosy so that you find your sound. During a performance is the time to be mighty tighty with your loosy goosy sound.

I like this thread. I can't wait to see what other people say.

[talasiga]

.......I can't wait to see what other people say.

mighty tighty interpretation: mutepoint is NOT going to hang around to hear others.
loosy goosey interpretation: mutepoint is impatiently eager to hear others ......

[mutepointe]

that must be the southern hemisphere, counterclockwise interpretation.