Exploring the Negative Generation Urban Legend

[benhall.1]

Something I've thought before now: the notion that there is great variation in the quality of Generations, more so than for other cheap makes, whether true or not, doesn't 'arf add to the marketing. It's like those packets of crisps, some of which might contain £10 notes. So, if you buy enough Gens, will you get one of the truly great ones? Let's all go out and buy hundreds more, and find out.

[AvienMael]

Seems to me that this is nothing new, and it certainly wasn't started by a bunch of "newbies" - even if it does tend to get repeated by many people who have yet to develop more skill with the whistle.

Feadog suffers from the same issues, and always has - despite the popular thinking that the MKI was in some way a "superior" cheap whistle. It wasn't, and it had the same control issues that all cheap whistles have always had, and still have today. Why?

Not because of the head design. I'm sure the Gen, Feadog, and Walton's prototypes were all spot-on in terms of what they were intended to be. Not much has changed over the years aside from the molds they use. Changes to the composition of the plastic would not produce the effects we are discussing. The process is still basically the same, and the process is going to produce whistle heads with a fair amount of variation from one batch to the next - or even from one within the same batch to another. It's a mass-produced cheap plastic part, and that's the nature of the beast. It's just that simple.

The reality is that this isn't merely a myth. There is some substance to it. It's also not a conspiracy to rip people off and reap more profit by making the same thing cheaper. These aren't car parts with precise tolerances. Nobody is "testing" these whistles to be sure they play decently, they just assume that the majority of them will, based on their design. In fact, as I look at one, I doubt if these whistle are touched by human hands throughout the entire production process. Some will play well, some won't, some will be exceptional when compared to the rest - and in the hands of a child, no one is going to know the difference. That is what $10 buys you. Again, it's just that simple.

[red_menace]

Well, it's perfectly possible you have an Eb stinker. No way to know unless you ... *ahem* ... take Dale up on his offer. But it's possible your expectations are a mismatch to the whistle. Your mention "mellow". It's not a word I associate with Gens, or necessarily want to associate with them. I like my Generations bright and chirpy.

One thing you might try if you also have a Gen D lying around is to swap heads with the Eb, since they're exactly the same head (1/2 inch inside diameter). Sometimes a particular head will perform better at the higher or lower pitch. My Gen Eb underwent a head exchange with a D, and both the Eb and the D are a bit nicer for it. No harm trying.

The G Generation is chirpy; what I meant is, it's surprisingly un-shrill and easy on the ear for such a high-pitched whistle. It's an absolute sod to play though, as it's so small the pads of my fingers are squished together and I find it practically impossible to half-hole on the thing. I've recorded a couple of sound clips quickly for you so you can hear the two. Do excuse the quality - this was just done now with my computer mic, without rehearsal and without any processing. You can hear the tendancy of the Eb to honk / squawk on the cuts.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clearwater ... Gen_Eb.mp3
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clearwater/Fyvie_Gen_G.mp3

To my ear the G sounds like a Gen should sound; the Eb is just a fail. Believe me it was worse before I tweaked it, and I've done very little to it. That said, I'm not the greatest player in the world and if you would like it I will happily post it off!

[Kypfer]

the tendancy of the Eb to honk / squawk

... I like it, it's a feature I'd consider an advantage, the trick is to learn NOT to do it except when/if you want it ... it's a style of playing I actually practice (for some tunes) and if I can't achieve the effect I want I simply don't play that tune on that whistle.

Each to their own

FWIW, I think your "G" sounds "normal"

[fearfaoin]

It strikes me as strange this thread is treating all of this as some sort of new insight.

New blood. The rest of us are
well past tired of the subject.

[crookedtune]

That's because you come from a generation of optimists.

[Steve Bliven]

That's because you come from a generation of optimists.

Or are optimistic of Generations...

Best wishes.

Steve

[JTC111]

Or are optimistic of Generations...

Gen-Rations ...isn't that the crap they feed you in the army?

[ducks]

who ate my reply?!

[PhilO]

My experience echoes that od MT Guru - I've also played and still own about 2 dozen Gens and no0t a clunker among them and spread out over a good number of years.

Philo

[MTGuru]

New blood. The rest of us are well past tired of the subject.

Well, I'm exploring a slightly different spin or focus. Maybe more personal than new. But yes, the sun also rises.

[MTGuru]

I've recorded a couple of sound clips quickly for you so you can hear the two. Do excuse the quality - this was just done now with my computer mic, without rehearsal and without any processing. You can hear the tendancy of the Eb to honk / squawk on the cuts.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clearwater ... Gen_Eb.mp3
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clearwater/Fyvie_Gen_G.mp3

To my ear the G sounds like a Gen should sound; the Eb is just a fail. Believe me it was worse before I tweaked it, and I've done very little to it.

Oh, thanks for the clips, red, nicely done.

In fact, this is a really good teaching example. Because what you are calling squawks or honks are actually the "chirps" that I (and I expect others like Nico and Mr.G) positively look for in a good Generation. So to my ear, that Eb actually sounds very nice. And IMO you wouldn't want to reduce the chirps any further, because that would effectively ruin the character of the whistle.

By comparison, the G whistle clip sounds almost a bit dull or bland. But honestly, the difference with the Eb is pretty slight from the listener's perspective. The G sounds like it also has a fair amount of chirp if you'd push it a little harder. And they both sound like good Gens (at least as far as one can tell from clips).

Here's part of my take on the issue of chirp. Every instrument has its strengths and limitations. The whistle lacks the flute's dynamics and honk, the pipes' variety of tone and "hard" ornament, the fiddle's bow articulations and double stops. All these things contribute to those instruments' distinctive personalities in ITM.

But one unique thing the whistle does have is the chirp, to add punch and lift and character to the tunes. And the ability to "play the chirp" and deliberately control it for expressive purposes is one of the skills I associate with the best players. The chirp becomes part of the overall articulation and reinforces it. I wish I were better at it myself.

It goes without saying that if you choose whistles that lack chirp, or you tweak the chirp out of your whistles, you're going to end up with an instrument that's missing an important quality to many trad-oriented ears. And if a player never acquires the skill of mastering a chirpy whistle, they're going to end up with an ITM playing style that may sound wrong in subtle ways. It's a problem I hear a lot in the posted clips and efforts of inexperienced players.

There's an interesting one-directional aspect to this, I think. That is, when a good Gen player moves to a less chirpy whistle, I often hear the approach to ornamentation change slightly to favor a bit more complexity, "fussiness" if you will, to compensate for the lack of inherent chirp in the articulation and to restore the canonical sound the whistler has in mind. The effect can be nice in its own right, depending on skill.

But the opposite direction is often a disaster. When a whistler used to blander, mellower whistles attempts the full ITM Monty on a genuinely chirpy Gen or such, the lack of chirp-trained habits combines with the livelier whistle for a result that's pretty far from a good ITM whistle sound. And sticking to the blander whistle just leaves you in blandsville.

The few times that I've given whistle lessons to friends, I've always insisted they use a Gen or Feadóg or equivalent as their learning instrument, regardless of what they might otherwise play. Method in my madness.

Anyway ... I guess the thread point is: I suspect quite a few people who describe a "bad Gen" may actually describing a "good Gen" and not even realize it - a whistle that falls somewhere in the middle of the bell curve or above. It's a matter of different (and critics would say untrained or misplaced) expectations.

[hoopy mike]

I've recorded a couple of sound clips quickly for you so you can hear the two. Do excuse the quality - this was just done now with my computer mic, without rehearsal and without any processing. You can hear the tendancy of the Eb to honk / squawk on the cuts.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clearwater ... Gen_Eb.mp3
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clearwater/Fyvie_Gen_G.mp3

I analysed the Eb recording with Flutini. Here's the result...

B4: +19
D#5: -29
G#5: -17
A5: +36
A#5: -33
C6: -30
D#6: -26
F6: -20

Looks like the whistle is generally quite flat. (I'm assuming that the A5 and B4 are ghost notes)...

[DrPhill]

I've recorded a couple of sound clips quickly for you so you can hear the two. Do excuse the quality - this was just done now with my computer mic, without rehearsal and without any processing. You can hear the tendancy of the Eb to honk / squawk on the cuts.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clearwater ... Gen_Eb.mp3
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clearwater/Fyvie_Gen_G.mp3

To my ear the G sounds like a Gen should sound; the Eb is just a fail. Believe me it was worse before I tweaked it, and I've done very little to it.

Oh, thanks for the clips, red, nicely done.

In fact, this is a really good teaching example. Because what you are calling squawks or honks are actually the "chirps" that I (and I expect others like Nico and Mr.G) positively look for in a good Generation. So to my ear, that Eb actually sounds very nice. And IMO you wouldn't want to reduce the chirps any further, because that would effectively ruin the character of the whistle.

Interesting. I think I can see what you are getting at here MTG, but I am not sure. It is probably my lack of experience. Could you, or somebody, point to a few strong and obvious 'chirps' so that I can be sure that I am understanding the term correctly. If someone had asked me to opine, I would have said that the whistle sounded 'interesting' (neither unpleasant nor one I would rush out to buy). Maybe I have not developed ITM ears yet?

[hoopy mike]

And here's the analysis for the G:
B4: +22
C6: +7
D6: -14
E6: -10
F#6: +3
G6: -2
A6: -9
B6: -24

Hmm - seems like it's more in tune than the Eb. Any thoughts?