What Wood for Whistle and Why? (New related question added o

bodhrans · Post by **bodhrans** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:56 pm

In two words, what to look for in a timber for whistles is density and stability. Many timbers fit both categories and traditionally the fruit woods, apple, pear, plum and olive have been used, as well as boxwood. They are all pretty plain woods though. Ebony and blackwood are also traditional and present a much more visually appealing instrument. More recently, the more exotic timbers are getting a run and are also quite satisfactory.

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:06 pm

I've had four wooden whistles by Glenn Schultz and Paul Busman and Fred Rose. All were terrific and highly recommended. The Busman was tulipwood, the Rose, blackwood and The Schultzes blackwood and birdseye maple.

To only compare apples to apples Both the Schultzes were fabulous but I thought there were differences and that it was the wood not the fipple or blade. The blackwood whistle was slightly louder and purer. I feel this is due to the density of the wood. The maple whistle has a slightly nutty or woody sound less pure without being chiffier if that makes sense. When I play the maple I feel a lot more vibration in the wood than with the blackwood. I wonder if the denser wood allows less vibration and therefore propels the sound out the barrel with more force therefore more volume. I don't know and these differences are very subtle. In summary I'd say the visual differences are enormously more noticible than the auditory ones.

Have Glenn or Paul make you a whistle from whatever wood makes your heart go fast. You won't be disappointed.

Doc

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:00 pm

materials has been a topic of debate in the world of instruments of a long time.

a physics nut will tell you that as long as two objects are shaped exactly the same, they will produce the same set of harmonics and what not if you produce a vibration in them the same way.

now the sax instructor at my college will tell you that the many layers of gold and silver on his saxophone give it a much richer tone than say a solid brass or solid silver sax.

so, take it as you will. i personally think material affects the sound of instruments at least a little. i certainly can tell the difference between a metal flute and a wood flute at least.

i think anything in the rosewood family would be good, nice warm, rich tone. and yes durability and looks do probably count a lot too

Mrs. James · Post by **Mrs. James** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:21 pm

ummmmmm.... ordering more whistles James?
sing another song, love.... please?

the credit card is full
for the Hammy-wish fulfilled
and though the music that you make
is beautiful for its sake
the wallet is mighty thin
To cater to your whistling whims

...... At least this week.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:35 pm

On 2003-02-19 22:21, Mrs. James wrote:
ummmmmm.... ordering more whistles James?
sing another song, love.... please?

the credit card is full
for the Hammy-wish fulfilled
and though the music that you make
is beautiful for its sake
the wallet is mighty thin
To cater to your whistling whims
...... At least this week.

You are so BUSTED, James!

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 12:13 am

On 2003-02-19 22:21, Mrs. James wrote:
ummmmmm.... ordering more whistles James?
sing another song, love.... please?

the credit card is full
for the Hammy-wish fulfilled
and though the music that you make
is beautiful for its sake
the wallet is mighty thin
To cater to your whistling whims
...... At least this week.

Welcome to the Forum, Shannon.

McHaffie · Post by **McHaffie** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 12:22 am

Ok, since there was a post regarding density and stability....

I should restate that the type of wood (density) and the THICKNESS of the wood used, would definately have to make a difference. Not only does it make a difference on the NA flutes I've made, but it also makes a noticeable difference in the aluminum whistles I make. The thicker the wall, the less resonant (brighter) it is.

Still sounds cool and all, but as I've said before... my personal preference is a variably mellow, with a tad bright tone to it. Therefore a medim to thin wall is needed. DENSITY makes a difference. More dense, thinner wall tolerances, etc.

All statements above are conditional to the materials used by the said maker. These statements do not necessarily reflect the opinions of any other persons. No animals were injured during this evaluation, nor any properties damaged.

Take care,
John

EDITED: for temporary eech inspediment due to typographical mis-coordination.

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: McHaffie on 2003-02-20 01:25 ]

[ This Message was edited by: McHaffie on 2003-02-20 01:27 ]

rbm · Post by **rbm** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 2:35 am

On 2003-02-19 17:40, chas wrote:
but I have no regrets getting a bocote whistle from him. Think rosewood or cocobolo with a finer, more complex brass-colored grain.

my cocobolo will soon be heading across the atlantic, hehehe

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:18 am

Just quoting Sankt Theoböhm the Bald, of what he published in 1871. I'll translate as best I can.

"For wood flutes, I usually take cocus wood or South American grenadilla. The first, of black or reddish-brown colour, is especially reccomendable for its brilliant sound, but does contain a resin which - quite exceptionnally - may induce a rash of the lips. To circumvene this problem, and also to get a sound both clear and brilliant in the high tones, many will prefer black grenadilla. For ebony and boxwood, these are used only in low-cost instruments."

I guess one should comment on the names of some woods at the time. Ebony was cheap, with Africa being mercelessly timbered.
Black grenadill is what we'd call African blackwood to-day (Dalbergia melanoxylon i.e. black wood).
However, the South American (in the mouth of a German and French meaning Latin America generally) Grenadill Boehm refers to as his second favorite could be what's refered nowadays as Palisander (Germany, France) i.e. Rosewood in English (Dalbergia stevensonii and remains a favorite of German recorder makers for their high ends. But it could just as well be Cocobolo or any other Dalbergia out of Latin America...

Cocus wood is well, cocus wood, or American Ebony, or Red Ebony, and reported as allergogenic since early 19th century.

Note that all these woods here are classified as toxic (to some extent) to-day, though Cocus keeps the worst reputation, and seems to be shied away from most woodwinds makers catalogs...
See for toxicity reference: http://bodd.cf.ac.uk/BotDermFolder/BotDermL/LEGU.html

Finally, I'll mention that Michael Grinter recently wrote me "I am making nearly all of my whistles from Cocobolo now".

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 5:31 am

Gotta chime in here...
I agree with Glenn Schultz that the choice of wood does not make that much difference in the sound of a whistle, as long as you use a very hard, reasonably smooth, tight grained wood. It all seems to be in the voicing. I've made as many as 3 "identical" whistles in one batch and yet had them come out sounding subtly different. The voicing is all done by hand ( at least on mine) and as such tiny differences creep in-- windway a tad wider/narrower, blade angle a little different, etc. It only takes a couple of thousandths of an inch to influence the sound of a whistle.
Olivewood is one of my current favorite woods. It turns beautifully, almost like plastic. Even without applying a finish, the surface is smooth and glossy. Also, it smells wonderful, at least while I'm working the wood. This, unfortunately, diminishes in time. Can't vouch for longterm stability, but I made one for myself about 2 months ago, and it's still going very strong. This wood has been used for recorders quite a bit by very reputable makers who probably would not use it if it had any major problems.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:34 am

On 2003-02-20 05:18, Zubivka wrote:
Just quoting Sankt Theoböhm the Bald, of what he published in 1871. I'll translate as best I can.

". . .For ebony and boxwood, these are used only in low-cost instruments."

I should note that boxwood was the favored wood for flutes until keys became common. The move away from boxwood had nothing to do with sound, only with the ability to put keys on the flutes. I have a keyed boxwood, and the keys are block-mounted rather than post-mounted.

EricWingler · Post by **EricWingler** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:17 am

I suppose balsa wood would be right out--unless, of course, you wanted a whistle that would fly.

McHaffie · Post by **McHaffie** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:25 am

On 2003-02-20 06:31, brewerpaul wrote:
Gotta chime in here...
It only takes a couple of thousandths of an inch to influence the sound of a whistle. ....

Now THAT is for sure and for certain, whether it be wood, metal or otherwise... Finger holes, tuning slides, necks.. all consistently replicable.. windway, plug placement, etc.. VERY VERY touchy.

Take care,
John

Dragon · Post by **Dragon** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:03 am

Hello....

On the subject of maple...I own two maple Native American flutes (one striped the other birdseye). Maple NA flutes are known for a mellow, warm sound. I have played Ebony NA flutes and they have a much more sharp, chrisp sound. Ebony is extreamly hard and vibates very little when played (at least with the NA flutes I have played). I can see that with very hard woods such as ebony there would be a small diffrence between woods for whistles, but with woods like maple which are hard, but not as hard as ebony the diffrence may be more noticable.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:41 am

True, Sage.

One thing that could me mentioned too is antique flutes, and more-over, recorders are quite thick-walled (or narrow-bore) while modern wood whistles have often very thin walls (typically Grinter) even if there are notable exceptions like Bleazey and Shaw.
Thin walls would logically claim harder, denser woods.
Apparently, Theoböhm the Bald actually drew a lot from this consideration for his conversion to metal (silver) rather than wood. The other aspects were the finish (smoothness) of the bore, and final weight (in favor of metal...).