What do you do with an E flat whistle?

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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by tucson_whistler »

Liney Bear wrote:
straycat82 wrote:Are you thinking in terms of playing with others in common situations (sessions, etc.) or just what key a tune is recorded/written in? I play an Eb just for kicks sometimes because it can be a nice change. I've known quite a few flute players who keep an Eb on hand. You'll also find recordings (Matt Molloy, Mary Bergin, etc.) who have recorded in that key.
If the ball had bounced a bit differently last night, we could have been playing in Eb in a heartbeat. Just gimme an excuse to bust out the Eb...
i'm about to go out of town again :( but if i ever do make it down there to a session i'll be sure to bring my Eb; thanks for the head's up. :)

cheers,
eric
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by Akiba »

Here's something you can do with an Eflat whistle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOwAD5UQnzo

Finnegan just kills on that little thing.
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by sackbut »

In Irish music, most of the tunes are traditional, and no one can know who originally wrote them, or in what key they might have been played by the composer.

Moreover, Irish traditional musicians probably couldn't care less.
But I wasn't only thinking about the Irish tradition (this is the whistle forum, not the ITM forum). In the Scottish tradition, thousands of tunes have known composers, all the way back to the eighteenth century. I'll be taking part in an RSCDS workshop in a couple of days - of 79 tunes to be practised, only 21 are 'Trad' - that is, composer unknown. (Of course all of them are traditional in style.)
Many Northumbrian tunes have known composers, as do many other English tunes, not to mention Welsh tunes, French tunes, and Swedish tunes.

The fact that all these traditions honour their creative talents, rather than preferring to forget which individual wrote a tune, doesn't mean that we have to play their compositions in the keys originally written; of course Gow, or Purcell, or Pigg, or Jonasson, aren't going to turn in their graves if we play their tunes in a different key. But there was an original key.

Granted, the keys we have today for Carolan tunes reflect performers' preferences at the time those tunes were published, long after Carolan died. But the whole concept of key signatures was around long before Carolan was born: Dowland and Byrd wrote in specific keys - or if that seems a little too grand, Playford's Dancing Master 1st edition in 1650, 20 years before Carolan was born, has quite a variety of key signatures (but nothing for the E flat whistle).

So I come back to my original question - apart from just playing everything you would normally play on a D whistle on an E flat whistle instead (and of course you can do that), are there any tunes actually written for that instrument, or any that sound really good on it?
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by pancelticpiper »

Yes you have a valid point there: I was coming from the standpoint of traditional music (both Irish folk and hymns using folk melodies) rather than Scottish music by known composers.

You'll find that folk musicians usually aren't persnicketty about keys and might play anything in any key. Uilleann pipers from Willie Clancy to Paddy Keenan have been known to play the same tune in two or three different keys. And pipers and whistlers and fluters might have a number of instruments in various keys and the music comes out in whatever key it happens to come out in on the particular instrument they have to hand at the moment.

Even "classical" music can be like that, well Baroque music anyhow. In the Baroque they weren't persnicketty about keys at all, and the same composer might arrange the same piece in various keys depending on the instrumentation.

In short, the notion that any piece of music has a "correct" key is an entirely modern one.

Anyhow, at a gig, whenever a thing I have to play on is in three or four flats I grab an Eb Low Whistle and see how it fits. I also have a Ab whistle for four or five flats, a Db/C# whistle for five or six flats, and even a Gb/F# whistle.
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by tucson_whistler »

Akiba wrote:Here's something you can do with an Eflat whistle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOwAD5UQnzo

Finnegan just kills on that little thing.
nice video. Finnegan rocks, and i love the old guy tapping his foot in the background. :)

cheers,
eric
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by lament »

pancelticpiper wrote: In short, the notion that any piece of music has a "correct" key is an entirely modern one.
I changed my perspective on keys after meeting someone with absolute pitch. When I play something "in the wrong key", she complains!
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by Kypfer »

Here's something you can do with an Eflat whistle:
... is it my imagination, or does he half-stop the END of the whistle occaisionally with his right-hand little finger? If so, maybe he's using an Eb because he can't quite reach with a D whistle ... or was that the point of the link :oops:
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by MTGuru »

Kypfer wrote:is it my imagination, or does he half-stop the END of the whistle occaisionally with his right-hand little finger? If so, maybe he's using an Eb because he can't quite reach with a D whistle
I didn't watch this vid ... But yes, I've seen Brian sometimes half-stop the end a semitone below the bell tone. Obviously easier on an Eb than D, but he has quite large hands anyway.
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by sackbut »

You don't have to be insisting on a 'correct' key to feel that key signatures make a difference. Don't you find, if you play the same tune, on the same D whistle, in B minor or A minor, that it makes a difference to the sound?

Here's Scott Skinner's take on different keys - presumably on the same fiddle :-

C - bold and piercing
A min - sad and plaintive
G - plenty of body
E min - sterile, thin
D - splendid body
B min - rather sad
A - the fiddle key
F min - exquisitely harrowing
E - brilliant but lacking in body
B flat - velvet, very rich and fine
E flat & C min - weird, fascinating and beautifully sad

These judgments will of course have a lot to do with his particular instrument. I would strongly disagree with his feelings about E min and C, but they may rest on the resonances of his fiddle played in his style.

Last weekend at the RSCDS workshop, we played a set of reels where the last tune was in E; the leader asked how we liked it, and someone said 'nice tune, but do we have to play it in that key?' to which the answer was yes, the brightness of the key (following the 3rd tune in A) helps lift the dancers for the last time through the dance.
So the reason for playing it in E was not 'that's its original key' (though it was), but 'it works in that key; it does a job'.

My original question on this thread was really 'what works on an E flat whistle?' rather than 'what's correct on an E flat whistle?'
'Anything works' is of course a fair answer on one level, but not terribly illuminating.
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by Mr.Gumby »

sackbut wrote:
My original question on this thread was really 'what works on an E flat whistle?' rather than 'what's correct on an E flat whistle?'
'Anything works' is of course a fair answer on one level, but not terribly illuminating.

The question as you posed it was:
sackbut wrote:Has anyone else, like me, bought a Generation E flat because it was cheap, and then found it doesn't get used much in a folk context? I only know 3 folk tunes (all Carolans) in relevant keys: Miss MacDermott, where you have to fudge a few notes where it goes off the bottom of the range - but if you can do that it sounds lovely - ; Mrs O'Rourke, which I can't get to sound like a whistle tune, it just sounds as if it should be played on a harp; and untitled No 175 in the Complete Works, which is a lovely lilting tune that sounds great on the whistle.

Any other ideas?

and in your opening statement you clearly put forward you don't perceive the relevant keys of much use in 'folk music'. You then quote three Carolan tunes that you apparently think are written and therefore correct in a key suitable for thee e flat whistle.

Suggesting you expand your thinking towards a less tied to the perceived 'correct' would seem enlightening enough for you to deal with for starters.

Maybe you retrospectively changed the question, maybe your opening was badly phrased, maybe both. Consider that one for a minute or two.
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by MarkP »

makes you wonder what Brid could possibly be thinking of with all those odd whistles...
http://www.bridodonohue.com/tobar_main.php
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by JTC111 »

lament wrote:I changed my perspective on keys after meeting someone with absolute pitch. When I play something "in the wrong key", she complains!
Singers must love having her around. :swear:

But seriously, I've known enough people with perfect pitch who can transcribe on the fly and not complain about the key to think she's the exception and perhaps forming your own musical philosophy independent of her ears (gifted though they may be) would do you better in the long run.
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by Mr.Gumby »

makes you wonder what Brid could possibly be thinking of with all those odd whistles...
The 'odd' Sindt in the picture is mine, she had that on loan for the recording. I got her one (when John accidentally sent me a D instead of the B I had ordered. He sent the B to replace it anyway) by the time the recording was about done.

The blue gen's head in the pic is really bent by the way. That's not a by product of the photography (but I would say that wouldn't I?).
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by MTGuru »

MarkP wrote:makes you wonder what Brid could possibly be thinking of with all those odd whistles...
http://www.bridodonohue.com/tobar_main.php
Just noting that the "Gallery" link on Brid's website is broken. :sniffle:
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Re: What do you do with an E flat whistle?

Post by lament »

JTC111 wrote:
lament wrote:I changed my perspective on keys after meeting someone with absolute pitch. When I play something "in the wrong key", she complains!
Singers must love having her around. :swear:

But seriously, I've known enough people with perfect pitch who can transcribe on the fly and not complain about the key to think she's the exception and perhaps forming your own musical philosophy independent of her ears (gifted though they may be) would do you better in the long run.
She can transcribe and adjust (she plays Boehm flute semi-professionally). It's just that she's aware of the key of the original recordings of songs we play. As I understand, changing the key, to a person with absolute pitch, sounds somewhat like changing the melody instrument would sound to the rest of us - clearly the same tune, but different. Not something to be done without some kind of artistic justification.
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