cromatic baritone regulator

[Calum Stewart]

I couldn't find any topics already about this, sorry if it's already been discussed. This almost certainly won't interest those pipers who have a fixed opinion on 'traditional', so sorry if this offends!

I've never ever seen any regulators with any different note-set-up, other than the 'traditional' one. I've seen contra bass regulators (4th regulator), extra drones, and all sorts of strange things... but never a semi-cromatic baritone regulator.

I guess it's better not to get into the realm of style and regs, however - speaking for myself only, I'm beginning to think less can be more! I've recently been playing with a single regulator (baritone), and have really come to like the way it blends with the chanter, in an unobtrusive fashion. More as a counter-melody or harmonic suggestion rather than a chordal blast. One thing that strikes me as being odd, is that why has no-one made a regulator with an E note? Or Gsharp? Or F natural? Or low C? All of these notes (if played on a single baritone regulator) could be so so great to add little textures beneath tunes in G minor, E minor, A major or D mixolydian (with the low C on baritone reg).

So, maybe I'm answering my own question here - because all the keys I've mentioned are a little removed from D, so maybe the current 'traditional' reg set up is purely designed around playing always with D as the root.

But, does anyone else share my enthusiasm for the possibility of more notes on reg? Of course this might change the way someone would use the reg(s). Personally, if I had a baritone reg with low C, Csharp, D (already there of course), E (dare I say Eb too?), F nat, F sharp (already there), G (already there), G sharp (mmm) and A (already there), I'd be quite content to produce subtle counter-melodic phrases with one sole reg, as opposed to an entourage of chords from 3.

Calum

[NicoMoreno]

http://www.uilleannobsession.com/photos ... 031210.gif

[Calum Stewart]

P.S
I'm not suggesting this might 'compete' with the traditional set-up, and god forbit influence reg playing on the traditional piping repertoire with such notes on the regs (the traditional set up is perfect for this), but simply that it could be really great for some other tunes that work on the pipes - tunes out with the usual piping repertoire / contemporary tunes.

[Mr.Gumby]

That's an awfully small image you're linking to there Nico

[Calum Stewart]

@ NicoMoreno
Sorry - can't quite make out what that tiny picture is!
Cheers,Calum

[PJ]

There are sets out there (both old and new) that have E keys somewhere. I've seen E keys added to bass, baritone and tenor. I'm no expert but I understand that the problem with the E note has something to do with columns of air (maybe related to why we play some notes by lifting one finger and others by lifting two fingers). In any case, E keys do exist.

Fnat, G#, Bb, C# keys ? Don't think I've seen one, but that's not to say they don't exist.

Some of the early sets of pastoral pipes (believed by some to be the predecessor of the uilleann pipes) have a single regulator with up to 8 keys.

[amckay]

I remember seeing a set on Andreas Rogge's website which had a 4th regulator with only an E key on it. It sat next to the bass reg.
Chris Bayley amongst other makers can add E keys to either tenor or baritone reg.

[PJ]

I think this is the K&Q set that Nico was indicating:

http://www.uilleannobsession.com/photos ... 031210.jpg
http://www.uilleannobsession.com/photos ... 031210.jpg

The description reads: 03/29/2010: The Odd Blonde: a set in C done in Castella box with true box trim. The set features a couple of unusual key mechanisms as requested by the customer, including an E key on the baritone regulator. - David Quinn, March 2010.

I heard that the D key on the baritone reg operates both as a D (if pressed half-way) and E (if fully pressed).

[MichaelLoos]

In the early eighties I saw a Dave Williams set with a fourth regulator playing E, Fnat, C# and high D IIRC, belonging to Marc Guilloux from France.

Personally, if I had a baritone reg with low C, Csharp, D (already there of course), E (dare I say Eb too?), F nat, F sharp (already there), G (already there), G sharp (mmm) and A (already there), I'd be quite content to produce subtle counter-melodic phrases with one sole reg, as opposed to an entourage of chords from 3.

That makes a total of ten keys, eight of them in the space where the four keys of the traditional setup are. If all these keys are in one line you'd need a very slim wrist to pick out a single tone. Also the keys would have to mounted in a different way, no space for key blocks. And I certainly wouldn't want to tune that beast...

[andymay]

Yo Calum,

Main problem i see would be fitting all the keys in a row and being able to reach them all.

But yeah more notes would be cool.

What if you had a normal baritone reg in D and then in the tenor reg slot another 'baritone' reg with the notes C (or C sharp) E, F, and G sharp - 4 keys on each. You'd then have all the notes you want (and i suppose the possibility of some really awful chords.....)

Why not try the basic concept out using a C or C sharp baritone reg in your tenor reg slot?

Cheers

A

[andymay]

OK so i just gave this a go -

Put a C baritone reg in place of the tenor on a D 3/4 set.

So you have these notes to play with - C, D, E, Fnat, F sharp, G (twice) and A

This is confusing but pretty cool - especially as the D baritone is in the normal place so you can ignore the other notes if you want. But yeah really nice to have the E and F nat to play with, and the low C right next to the D. It feels pretty logical if there's a fixed relationship between the 2 regulators - in this case move your hand toward your body = down one whole tone.

I reckon this is the way to go instead of one really long regulator.

Cheers

A

[Elmek]

PJ Wrote: Fnat, G#, Bb, C# keys ? Don't think I've seen one, but that's not to say they don't exist.

Some of the early sets of pastoral pipes (believed by some to be the predecessor of the uilleann pipes) have a single regulator with up to 8 keys.

As amcKay says Chris Bayley (and probably others) offer an E regulator and chris did explain to me why it best fitted as a separate item but have forgotten and he also does an auxilliary reg with these extra notes (it is in his catalogue) and have also seen a 7 or 8 keyed reg in his workshop that went with a pastoral set some years back.

Perhaps one of the makers (or chris if he sees this) can explain about why the E regulator is better as a separate unit

Have seen photos of a historic set with keys all over the place on at least five regulators but cannot remember where

John

[PJ]

I have a separate E regulator on my set but the reasons why it is separate is that I wanted to be able to play chords with the tenor reg (mainly E/G and E/B).

[Calum Stewart]

Thanks for responses everyone - it's really interesting to see the different ways one could do this.

Andy, I think you've hit the nail on the head there... and similar to what I was thinking myself, after putting this post.

I havn't got a C baritone reg to hand, but I'll see if I can borrow one to verify if the system works or not! I'll report back if anyone is interested to know the result!?

Cheers everyone.
Calum

[Calum Stewart]

It'll probably be a while until I meet anyone with a C set with regulators! Does anyone have a C set AND a concert set, with a bit of time / interest to try this idea?
I'll hijack the first flat set piper in C I meet... but that could be a wee while. Rare breed