Cello at the session :(

[MTGuru]

Gerald Trimble was at our session a few weeks ago

Yes, 'twas he I was thinking of. And I know who has his Sobell cittern if he ever wants it back.

[johnkerr]

I have played in house sessions (in my house, even) with a cello player, and it was lovely. She's mainly a player of Scottish music, but what she was doing fit fine with the ITM the rest of us were playing. There really are lots more similarities than there are differences between the trad musics of Ireland and Scotland, you know.

[I.D.10-t]

It seems to me that the the less "traditional" the instrument, the better the player must be to convince others that they can contribute. Would that be a fair statement? Granted, in something like fife and drum, you will never have more than a few choices.

[Jayhawk]

It seems to me that the the less "traditional" the instrument, the better the player must be to convince others that they can contribute. Would that be a fair statement? Granted, in something like fife and drum, you will never have more than a few choices.

I'd agree with that.

I do draw the line at noseflutes, though. If someone can do a proper roll on a noseflute they probably have a medical condition that would lead me to not want to sit next to them, and lets not even talk about sliding notes on a noseflute.

Eric

[Nanohedron]

It seems to me that the the less "traditional" the instrument, the better the player must be to convince others that they can contribute. Would that be a fair statement?

In contrast to Jayhawk (but with a nod), I'll take up the curmudgeon's staff and say: No, not really. In ITM terms, at least, I see three issues: ability (yes), genre familiarity (absolutely), and the instrument itself (depends up to a point on the first two).

What I have seen is that the less traditional (and that means background OR instrument), the better they have to be to convince themselves that they can contribute. We tend to keep a wait-and-see attitude. And that is in spite of all, for seldom are our fears unrealised: you can be the likes of Louis Armstrong, but if you don't know the music and the community's expectations, and I mean capital Kay Enn Oh Doubleyoo, it just ain't gonna happen. Period. People really hate it when they hear that, but it's true. I've seen the truth of it a gazillion times. The path to the ITM session is littered with the bones of the willfully blind.

If you know the music, you can lug a bleedin' flugelhorn to the session if you like. But played well or no, it's not going to sound right. That counts. At least a cello stands a chance. And so does a khaen, for that matter. But they'll always be novelties. Well, maybe give 'em a century or so to see how they're accepted into the fold.

[Nanohedron]

Okay, someone (you know who you are ) posted a very good point about ITM musicians being more flexible than fife-and-drummerly types, but then deleted it. Dunno why; like I said, I thought it was a good point. So I'll try to recapture my lovingly crafted reply which was lost to the winds when I hit "submit" because the post I was attributing no longer existed, plus try to make it look like I thought it up all by myself. *sigh*

Anyway, yeah. ITM folks tend to take a lot of flak for being hardnosed when things veer away from the canonical, but it's true that we have some flexibility. One fellow asked if a saxophone would be okay. "It's like this," I replied. "If you're a competent ITM player on a usual intrument - preferably you're known to be a competent player - a sax would be seen as a lark, a fun interlude. But it'd only be good for that once, really. If you like, maybe trot it out once a year or so at most just to keep the joke from going stale. But if sax is all you've got, then - how shall I put this? - you'd be in for a very hard go of it, socially." He seemed to understand that. He was disappointed, though, as he definitely wasn't willing to take up at least the whistle.

I myself would love to take a theremin to a session for hijinks, but have you ever tried to play one? At least as hard as the uilleann pipes. If anyone can creditably play The Mason's Apron on one, I think I shall have to worship them.

I have threatened to bring kazoos.

[jemtheflute]

I do draw the line at noseflutes, though. If someone can do a proper roll on a noseflute they probably have a medical condition that would lead me to not want to sit next to them, and lets not even talk about sliding notes on a noseflute. Eric

Slick post, Eric. I think people get far too snotty about "foreign" instruments! They are not the Bogeyman. (And I currently have a head-cold.... )

Before this all runs ( ) too far off-topic..... Neil Martin of Cran and other ITM bands does a very convincing job with a cello.

The Cello in Traditional Music

[Ben Shaffer]

I had a very unpleasant experience with a cellist at a session, I had to ask them to not come back. The problem was mostly that they had no idea what the music was supposed to sound like. It could have been lovely but it wasn't!

Bingo, at the session I mentioned at the beginning of the thread the Cellist did not really seem to know the music and seemed to be just noodling around ( to my ears)
Good god noodling around is bad enough with the standard session Instruments , but with the Cello it was almost comical

No one mentioned anything at the session, but can we say the emperor has no clothes? or are we to politically correct and have to willy nilly accept any instrument or anyone who cares to come to the session?
Just venting, but you get my drift

[Nanohedron]

I had a very unpleasant experience with a cellist at a session, I had to ask them to not come back. The problem was mostly that they had no idea what the music was supposed to sound like. It could have been lovely but it wasn't!

Bingo, at the session I mentioned at the beginning of the thread the Cellist did not really seem to know the music and seemed to be just noodling around ( to my ears)
Good god noodling around is bad enough with the standard session Instruments , but with the Cello it was almost comical

No one mentioned anything at the session, but can we say the emperor has no clothes? or are we to politically correct and have to willy nilly accept any instrument or anyone who cares to come to the session?
Just venting, but you get my drift

Just last evening we had a fellow that drops by maybe once a year or so; makes his living as a violinist-for-hire, so he covers a variety of genres, and is technically very good. However, his arsenal of Irish tunes is limited, his style is colored by a degree of classical and jazz influence, and his ideas of acceptable musical behavior come from elsewhere entirely. If he didn't know the tune, he'd do this "chuck...chuck...chuck" thing with his bow on the strings. His mando behavior was a bit worse: periodically in the course of his chording (and he wasn't bad at it so far as that goes), he'd take the thing, point the soundboard at our venerable box player, and jangle it at him. The box player - an Irishman - and I gave each other bleak looks but held our peace; I suppose it was the knowing that we'd be free of him for another year that kept our spirits up.

At one point, lamenting about our tendency to play tunes only three times or so (he couldn't pick them up as well that way), yer man said, "They don't do it like that at Old Time sessions." Of course I wanted to sweetly say, "Well, yeah, about that: you're HERE, now, aren't you."

[Ben Shaffer]

I had a very unpleasant experience with a cellist at a session, I had to ask them to not come back. The problem was mostly that they had no idea what the music was supposed to sound like. It could have been lovely but it wasn't!

Bingo, at the session I mentioned at the beginning of the thread the Cellist did not really seem to know the music and seemed to be just noodling around ( to my ears)
Good god noodling around is bad enough with the standard session Instruments , but with the Cello it was almost comical

No one mentioned anything at the session, but can we say the emperor has no clothes? or are we to politically correct and have to willy nilly accept any instrument or anyone who cares to come to the session?
Just venting, but you get my drift

Just last evening we had a fellow that drops by maybe once a year or so; makes his living as a violinist-for-hire, so he covers a variety of genres, and is technically very good. However, his arsenal of Irish tunes is limited, his style is colored by a degree of classical and jazz influence, and his ideas of acceptable musical behavior come from elsewhere entirely. If he didn't know the tune, he'd do this "chuck...chuck...chuck" thing with his bow on the strings. His mando behavior was a bit worse: periodically in the course of his chording (and he wasn't bad at it so far as that goes), he'd take the thing, point the soundboard at our venerable box player, and jangle it at him. The box player - an Irishman - and I gave each other bleak looks but held our peace.

At one point yer man said, "They don't do it like that at Old Time sessions." Of course I wanted to sweetly say, "Well, yeah, about that: you're HERE, now, aren't you."

in contrast to a get together at a friend's house last month, we had a fiddle, whistle , Flute and a bodhran....it sounded really, really good, chills up the spine and I was saying to my self....this is really what ITM is about.....it will happen again

[Nanohedron]

Big sessions are mighty and exciting, but I do prefer the small ones, myself.

[I.D.10-t]

Okay, someone (you know who you are ) posted a very good point about ITM musicians being more flexible than fife-and-drummerly types,

Part of my quote."No offense, but you ITM people seem a lot less strict than the fife and drum people, but I guess I can see how a Theremin will never fit ITM."

[Nanohedron]

Okay, someone (you know who you are ) posted a very good point about ITM musicians being more flexible than fife-and-drummerly types,

Part of my quote."No offense, but you ITM people seem a lot less strict than the fife and drum people, but I guess I can see how a Theremin will never fit ITM."

See, there, that wasn't so bad, was it.

[talasiga]

Went to a session and there was a cello player in attendance. The playing made for a very unpleasant experience. It sounded, well just very loud and did not seem to fit in. I don't know if it was the instrument or the Player. I mean where do you draw the line? I think everyone at the session was to polite to say anything. I'm hoping this is a one time visit, or maybe the person could take up the fiddle?

The person has taken up
fiddle
because the cello is as much a fiddle as a violin or a rebec.

In fact, the fiddle, being a fretless bowed isntrument like the violin is POTENTIALLY more suited to the "trad" than guitar. Perhaps I should say - should be easier to accomodate for ITM than guitar or even, the Boehm flute.

I first heard cello used well in Renaissance of the Celtic Harp album by Alan Stivell in the seventies. I think it was played by Manuel Rescasens. The Irish released "Lament" also features a cello by an Irish player. I can't remember the name of the musician - the thing is in my wife's car at the moment.

Just to add, I find these points agreable:

I was part of a company that included Packie Manus Byrne and a celloplayer once. It was just lovely. Loads of recordings, going back to the Old Ireland Quartet of the 1920s, included celloplayers.

As with all instruments, depending on the musician behind them, they can be a blessing or a curse. We had a foursome playing accordeon, fiddle, pipes and flute visiting a few weeks ago. We hope they never return. We had different people playing pipes, accordeon, flute and fiddle since, they were very welcome and will be so any time.

and

........
Consider the guitar. It can be used to wonderful effect as accompaniment for Irish music, or it can rip the very life out of a session. I would further say that I've heard very few players who, when playing jigs and reels in a flatpick or finger-style, can conjure the kind of lilt out of a guitar that fiddlers and fluthers have no trouble doing. And this in a UNIVERSE of competent guitar players. That's about the music, not technical competence on the instrument.

......

just to id a few

[highwood]

[slightly modified] Went to a session and there was a ______________ player in attendance. The playing made for a very unpleasant experience.

Fill in the blank, I don't think that it matters as much as the bit in bolded/italic text
... though tuba might be stretching it - once heard flight of the bumble bee on tuba, interesting ...

I should add:
I might be biased - my wife plays wonderful ITM on cello
and
I will admit to partially taking up whistle was because I felt it worked better than oboe or English horn for session playing.